Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards harpsichord sound on the HP-505 question

""No - by 'release', I do mean the moment you release the key.""

Right, select Harpsichord 1.

Press the keys to play any chord you want.

Depress sustain pedal while still holding the keys down. (I don't have the three pedal unit to test it but it may be the same on all three pedals)

Release keys..... result NO TCHK, sound fades away nicely.

Release sustain pedal ...... result TCHK!

There is no doubt in my mind this is a glaring software fault, it is in no way related to an acoustic harpsichord mechanism.

I will repeat what the OP said... this noise renders the voice unusable.

Let me put it this way, this noise, which I have never heard on a "proper" harpsichord, nor on the RD 300s, is so annoying I will be considering a Kawai, which (Thank God) has no such "realism".

When you silence the still ringing note with the note's damper mechanism - no pedal involved, sustain or otherwise - the note shuts off, reacting to that damping mechanism ('iiup'). This is very similar to the effect you hear here from an actual harpsichord: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71x4MSlpGUk

Thus it is realistic and therefore not a software fault. Obviously, if you let the note decay to silence (by sustain pedal or keeping the note down) there is no energy left in the string to create the 'iiup' sound, therefore it does not happen. This is what happens on a real harpsichord and on the Roland. Seems like a very good example of software programming to me. Perfectly usable for passages of music where the effect becomes part of the overall musical experience very well, imo.

Why are you using the sustain pedal with a harpsichord voice? This pedal has no place in either acoustic or digital harpsichord playing. On an acoustic harpsichord, the release of a key, however long it is held, will produce a sound: the sound of the quill brushing past an as yet undamped string, followed by the damper hitting the string.

DOH!

Have you read the whole thread?

Simply to demonstrate it IS NOT a key-off effect, it is an electronic noise.

You will see that I have referred it to the same sound as the Roland produces on Acoustic Bass 3, again, nothing to do with "mechanicals" simply a software glitch in which the micro switching is amplified.

I agree that the sound on the harpsichord video is audible, however, it does not render the instrument unusable, a subtle difference to the Roland!

However, it seems we will have to agree to disagree.

I will agree with you when I find the Harpsichord 1 voice on the Roland is as usable as the other harpsichords, until then it is an ugly waste of space for me (along with Acoustic Bass 3, some of the ten tone organs and a few other voices).

I have got to re-quote this from Marco...

"Unfortunately the speed of the key release, or the already past decay time of the tone do not alter the loud 'iiuup' at all"

Please not use of the word "LOUD", it really is important.

As slippery keys said, this is to establish the nature of the noise at key release at different stages re decay - not as an actual performance tool!

However, I come to the opposite conclusion from slipperykeys - I think it's a well recorded & programmed sound, especially considering it's an extra feature (this is, after all an SN Piano - harpsichord etc are bonuses).

....so I also agree with slipperkeys that, by this point, we can agree to differ.

When did anyone make it clear that the use of the sustain pedal was solely to demonstrate a point? A quote would be useful in case I missed it.

I assume the pedal facility was deliberately re-activated to make this point, as normally both pedal(s) are deactivated when using the harpsichord voice.

...well, the whole thread is about establishing whether the key-off sound is intentioned or not, and if so, whether it's effective - hence we're arguing 'a point', and this includes experimenting with the sustain pedal. The fact that you would not get a sustain pedal on an actual harpsichord is not really relevant....you just need to avoid it when playing harpsichord.

The sound of a plucked string of an acoustic harpsichord decays naturally and if left long enough without the key being released would result in silence. On release, there will be the sound of the quill brushing the string followed by the sound of the damper hitting the string. This sound is unavoidable. The only variation in those sounds depends upon how many other strings are open at release and how many keys are released at the same time.

Good samples will replicate the sounds - in their minute variations - because they are based upon real harpsichord actions. The extent to which DP harpsichord voices are poor - I have yet to find one better then poor - rests upon either inadequate sampling or induced electronic noise or both.

Thanks to everybody contributing to this thread, it was clarifying the situation perfectly and it is now clear to me that the harpsichord sound is sampled very well! It is obviously sampled from the close up perspective of the player and not from the perspective of the audience which is located further on distance to the instrument. Thus, playing harpsichord on the HP-505 emulates soundwise the situation of the player, and not so much of the audience.

Having experienced that also the piano sound of the HP-505 has a (to me too) loud hammer mechanism sound present in the tone like I rarely hear it sitting in the audience of a piano concert but lately could first time hear it once being very(!) close to the grand piano played by some professional pianist, I conclude that the Roland HP models in general are focussed to best possible imitate the situation for the player, and soundwise is not aimed to render the tone as heard by the audience located more on distance to the instrument. It is thus an actually excellent instrument for the pianist who needs to practise as compatible as possible to the real thing (grand piano or harsichord), but a little bit irritating to a hobbyist like me who first hand compares the sound output only to what is experienced from the audience perspective (concert hall and CD recordings).

This thread really changed my understanding on my still relative new instrument so much, that I will shortly publish a new review on the HP-505, because my former ones obviously have missed this very important detail about the perspective from which the HP models should be looked at.
Thanks to everybody!
(For me, the OP, the thread could successfully terminate here )

I wanted to chip in sooner, but it takes a short while to register. I recently had a chance to fool around with a real harpsichord, and noticed a difference in the key off sound from my fp7-f. In my roland, the key off sound only changes in frequency according to the note played, but releasing the key at different speeds does not affect the key-off sound. In a real harpsichord, that sound changes with the speed with which you release the key.

MDP92, thanks for this confirmation of what I somehow expected. It´s too sad to have this expensive SN instruments at home, finding so many excellent base also in their extras, only to become disappointed that so many of these extras have not really been finished.