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#2048533 - 03/15/13 02:35 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]  
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theJourney Offline
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What is the model number of your Silent?

This weekend/next week I am going to try to play a NU1, a B1 SG2 Silent and a U1 SH Silent for comparison purposes...

Perhaps you need to turn up the sound on your television while practicing on your NU1? laugh

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#2048541 - 03/15/13 03:17 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]  
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theJourney, are you going to Clavis?




website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#2048560 - 03/15/13 04:20 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]  
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I have to be in Dusseldorf and so was going to try there. Do you think clavis would have all the models side by side?

#2048650 - 03/15/13 08:42 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]  
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Dave Horne Offline
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I was in Clavis in Amsterdam last year and they had all three N models next to each other but I don't remember seeing the NU1. They might have it now.

It's worth mentioning that 'regular' music stores now carry the Yamaha hybrids, not just the stores that sell the acoustic grands.




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#2048738 - 03/15/13 01:55 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: theJourney]  
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titowsky Offline
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Originally Posted by theJourney
What is the model number of your Silent?

This weekend/next week I am going to try to play a NU1, a B1 SG2 Silent and a U1 SH Silent for comparison purposes...

Perhaps you need to turn up the sound on your television while practicing on your NU1? laugh


Please believe me... I do not know (it was a very nice gift when I did not care so much about that, it was anyway one of the first Silent pianos, about 15 years ago) and I will be able to check the model when I will come back home.

smile Now I will switch on the TV and start playing the NU1 smile

#2056767 - 03/30/13 09:09 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]  
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OK, my Silent is an old MP100 (1995), I played it now at home for some hours and I have to say that... it is incredible but it does not seem that electronics has improved so much in all these years!
Repeated chords are easier on my Silent (they sound without peaks or strange behaviours), I am able to play Beethoven op.53 without annoying issues I experienced on 3 different NU1 models.
Some strange responses are still there, so I would just say that I do not have a clear preference in the sound through headphones between MP100 and NU1: I do not care of the quality of the samples (coming from CFX or other) if I cannot get the sound my fingers want to produce.

So, at the end, I am pleased with my NU1 for the action, the quality of the cabinet... and looking at it as an instrument for pure practise maybe it is good enough. BUT I expected much more from the sound and sensitivity (I regard Kawai CA95 superior and much enjoyable from this point of view); definatly I did not want to play anything for anybody on this instrument: it does not reflet my musical intentions and does not allow me to deeply involve myself in my performance.

So I will save money for a Bechstein upright and hopefully find my way with that (as it is also possible to male it silent adding dedicated system).

My advice and my experience is really... try NU1, but also CA95... for me the latter represents the best quality/price choice, otherwise you probably need just an acoustic smile

#2057076 - 03/30/13 07:31 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]  
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Thanks for the final review Titowsky. I have wanted to try both DPs and your vote for the Kawai helps me in my decision making process. The only way to truly know if you like a DP is to play it, play it some more, then start the loop over again.


Kawai MP11, iMac 2015, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 5, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA
The Kawai Digital Piano Users Forum
#2057174 - 03/31/13 01:32 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]  
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Thanks for the update.

If I am not mistaken, the MP100 is a tried and true Yamaha U1 with the 1995-era state-of-the-art Yamaha Silent System factory installed. These U1 Silent Pianos are apparently still one of the best sellers from our large, local Yamaha dealer.

It sounds like a Yamaha Silent Piano -- especially with the latest SH sound generator -- is still probably the best bet for serious pianists offering a true hybrid (or split personality) situation of acoustic + digital capabilities (and one that keeps on going for 15, 20, etc. years).

Of course, it doesn't come cheap to buy an acoustic piano with a digital piano built in. The price for the lastest reincarnation with the CFX sampled SH sound generator is around euro 10.000,--, about three times the price of the CA95. But then you really have something: a solid acoustic piano with Yamaha action and a very well integrated optical sensor system-driven digital piano off of the same action using Yamaha's latest sampling technology with a 10 year guarantee on the piano and, at least in Europe, a very healthy re-sale market.

It sounds like, despite the name, that the NU1 might probably be a digital only version of the B1 (or something even more inferior) rather than the U1?


#2057314 - 03/31/13 10:21 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: theJourney]  
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Yesterday I tried the NU1 just beside the smallest Yamaha Silent in a Shop in Padua; unfortunately even the actions were not comparable, too light and short the trip in the NU1. Tried also to play the same note on NU1 with different weights of finger and shoulder, and various approaches to the key... too reduced differences (or no at all) in the response from the instrument: I do not think this the best that nowadays electronics can offer.

It is really a pity: I am noticing a huge effort from Yamaha in advertisement and support of NU1 distribution quite everywhere, like a revolutionary instrument for serious players... but at least for me it is not like that: the simplest Yamaha Silent wins without any doubt, including a very competitive price (considering the value of a true piano against a hybrid).

Last advice: do not make my own mistake, the instrument must be played for a while at full volume (high volume), testing different repertoires and all your own expectations, without trusting just in the superior action which results evident from the first notes everyone can play.

The only thing I am still interested in, regarding DP world, is eventually the VPC1... in order to use it as transportable keyboard for practicing in emergency situations, even without sound. Don't know if it can fit the purpose...

#2057392 - 03/31/13 01:32 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]  
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Is it possible for you to return it or at least exchange it for something else? If I was unsatisfied with such an expensive piano the way you are, I would not keep it even for a day.

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/31/13 04:10 PM.

https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
#2057433 - 03/31/13 02:49 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]  
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Originally Posted by titowsky

The only thing I am still interested in, regarding DP world, is eventually the VPC1... in order to use it as transportable keyboard for practicing in emergency situations, even without sound. Don't know if it can fit the purpose...


It is very smart solution.
I was thinking, just as an idea, to connect Kawai VPC1 to a laptop or mac mini with Ivory II + stand+3 pedals+set of non expensive pretty small active loudspeakers (Genelec/Yamaha/Fame/Adam/Mackie etc.)
The price would be still less than 2.100 Euro (without PC or MAC).

http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/Kawai-VPC1-Masterkeyboard/art-SYN0004258-000
(€1329)
http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/Synthogy-Ivory-II-American-Concert-D-/art-PCM0011826-000
(€155)

http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/Pro-Audio/Monitore-/-Verst-rker/Mackie-MR-5-mk2-Studiomonitor-aktiv-5-25-Woofer/1-HT-55/30w/art-REC0008495-000
(€162 * 2)
or Studio headphones:
http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/AKG-K-240-MKII-Studio-Kopfh-rer-halboffen/art-REC0005852-000
(€139)

http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/K-nig-Meyer-18953-Digitalpiano-Klapptisch-schwarz/art-KEY0002459-000
(€115)
http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/Kawai-F-20-Doppelpedal-mit-Half-Damper-Funktion/art-KEY0002112-000
(€89)

________
€2151 (with Speakers and Headphones together)
+
http://www.mactrade.de/macs-1/macbo...3-retina-2-5-ghz-intel-dual-core-i5.html
(€1369 with discount)
Personally, I think it is a good portable laptop one for such needs and even more.

Total:
€3520

(+some €60-80 for delivery if you order form both stores)

instead:
http://www.musicstore.de/is-bin/INT...R/ViewParametricSearch-SimpleOfferSearch
(€4560)
(~ €140-€200 delivery inside Europe)


Best regards,
Wess
#2057442 - 03/31/13 03:11 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: Wess. Chr. K.]  
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With this MacBook is there no need for an external audio interface?
Is the internal sound card itself of that high quality indeed (not the weaker chain link than the Mackies or the AKG240 You recommended)?

I think no extra pedal unit is necessary, the VPC1 has a 3 pedal unit in the package (with HalfPedal).

#2057472 - 03/31/13 04:16 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]  
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Wess. Chr. K. Offline
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Hi Temperament,

the sound card in this Macbook pro is really very good one to build system "Computer+Soft Piano+VPC1 (as a portable MIDI device).
However, if you expand the budget you might take some external sound card/system, but this is not the idea, talking about "portable set".
IMPO, master keyboard is definitely a kind of studio staff. I have had other brand 88 key controller for 8 years and replaced it with the AG.
It is on doubt which one is better – the Master keyboard or Workstation/DP with sounds on it. When I was making my research buying DP I passed true these long hesitations.

But talking about MBP13" - with simple splitter (L/R) from audio out of MBP you can send signal either to cheep Mackie or directly to plug the headphones (AKG 240 in this sample).
Honestly, I would prefer to work with headphones. AKG Studio series are my favorite, but it is a matter of test. There are many other great headphones on the market.
My 13 years experience gives me the right to mention that in my everyday activities they (Studio 240) are good and extremely robust headphones.
In all 3 different audio/video studios I work with as a composer, the colleagues trust AKG. Please, do not understand me wrong, Beyerdynamic and Senheiser are also one of top level.
It is not so important. You have to test them and if you like it... you could "merry them".

I only spotted 'headphones' as a virtual set with VPC1. Recently some of the colleagues form the forum mentioned that Kawai has not developed an editor for MAC. Well, then connect it to PC.
Frankly, I am mac user for many ears, but not the one form the "cult" society. The reason I mentioned 13"Macbook pro Retina was because it is slim/powerful (as a design and options), has the best display in its 13" class. As musicians, surely we (might) use notation software for many proposes. Talking form my experience, It works fantastically. And not at least, the model I mentioned has flash drive, though а small one – 128 GB, runs very fast to maintain flawlessly Ivory II (American D).
As for as Mackie, well, they seemed to be a low price solution for active monitors.
When I purchased "American D", I tested its sound on Studio high-end monitors Genelec, Yamaha and Adamsm but also on Desktop Genelec (8020A).

The build in speakers of most DP are not from top level, but I guess Mackie, Fame, Yamaha or Adams will fit well.
As I mentioned, I would prefer headphones semi opened.

Ones more I will answer on you question "Is the internal sound card itself of that high quality indeed" – yes, it is.
Compared it to my RME it does not "harms" the sound as many others build in sound cards (Dell, HP, Acer or others that I had compared in last 5-6 years).
Of course, if you have USB or Firewire device (and it is not called "M-audio") is more convent (volume control, MIDI, input, output, SPDIF, monitor, AUX etc.)

Last edited by Wess. Chr. K.; 03/31/13 04:17 PM.

Best regards,
Wess
#2057608 - 03/31/13 11:54 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]  
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Originally Posted by titowsky

The only thing I am still interested in, regarding DP world, is eventually the VPC1... in order to use it as transportable keyboard for practicing in emergency situations, even without sound. Don't know if it can fit the purpose...


It would depend on how you plan to transport it -- and how tolerant you are of keys that are out of regulation.

We know from other threads that the RM/GF keyboards do not travel well and often arrive damaged in the factory-sealed, original transportatation cartons. If you will be driving it under your own careful control you might be ok. I wouldn't consider paying extra and checking it as oversized luggage on an airplane. Too risky.

Last edited by theJourney; 03/31/13 11:55 PM.
#2057755 - 04/01/13 10:49 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]  
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I already agreed with the seller of my NU1 for a change with a good up right in the near future, without economic disadvantages... So ok, the mistake is not so heavy.

Regarding VPC1...I am not tolerant with Keys out of regulation, so I will see... First I want to seriously test the Keyboard, then if it is comparable to CA63-CA93 it could be an useful purchase. For sure it would be under my control in my car during the trips :-)

#2058141 - 04/02/13 02:14 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]  
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Originally Posted by titowsky
do not make my own mistake, the instrument must be played for a while at full volume (high volume),


I´m a bit puzzled here. My NU1 is way too loud at full volume. I have measured sound levels of different uprights vs. my NU1 and the most realistic setting of the volume knob is about 2 o´clock. Everything above 3 o´clock is way off, imho. I am not able to get good dynamics fromt the instrument at maximum volume, either. And my ears are ringing from the lould piercing sound the speaekers produce. But at lower setting, everyhing is absolutely fine with the NU1. Have you tried it at lower volume settings?

Last edited by Dragon777; 04/02/13 02:15 AM.
#2058151 - 04/02/13 03:58 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: 36251]  
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Hi Dragon, I agree: NU1 sound is "tolerable" at low, max medium volume... Over 2 or 3 o'clock becomes annoying and peaks or disegualities are too evident. This was another issue I discovered during quick performance simulation for a small group of people, better to keep it for intimate playing...

#2058156 - 04/02/13 04:25 AM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: titowsky]  
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Hi Titowsky,
did turning down the volume to a realistic level of a comparable upright not improve the dynamic response of the NU1 for you, which you were missing in your tests above?

#2058350 - 04/02/13 01:53 PM Re: Tried Yamaha NU1 for first time today. [Re: Dragon777]  
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No no... turning it down to half or less simply makes the sound (to my hears) more acceptable... in the sense that peaks are less evident, some very very small volume differences among keys becomes not perceptible and... with my limited English I do not know how to describe, but it sounds more enjoyable... I do not suffer too much its rather poor sensitivity to my touch.
I am used to play it just at low volume (no more than 2 o'clock).
With headphones the overall quality seemed worse, but I will spend some more hours with that.

On Saturday I will go to Tūbingen to try the Silent - Vario system in the local huge Bechstein shop: I think now I am pretty prepared for a comparison smile

Last edited by titowsky; 04/02/13 02:38 PM.
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