Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
71 registered members (7uturu, AndyP, AprilE, ando, agraffe, 16 invisible), 1,662 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2048215 - 03/14/13 01:56 PM Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords?  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 91
VJ. Offline
Full Member
VJ.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 91
Cleveland, Ohio
Can someone tell me how the chords in the measures 22, 23 & 28 fit functionally in the piece? I see that they are variant of some Augmented Sixth Chords.

If so, why 2 augmented sixth chords in succession in measures 22 & 23?

Please help.

Ref: http://www.gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/Classics/WTCPrelu.pdf

Thanks much,

VJ

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2048240 - 03/14/13 02:42 PM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: VJ.]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,055
PianoStudent88 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,055
Maine
I don't see any augmented sixth chords.

M.22: F#dim
M.23: Bdim (add C: I'm never quite what to call the C functionally here; perhaps in some sense a suspension from the previous measure. But I like the effect)
M.24: F#dim over a G pedal note

How are you naming these chords?


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2048244 - 03/14/13 02:49 PM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: PianoStudent88]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 91
VJ. Offline
Full Member
VJ.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 91
Cleveland, Ohio
Thanks... I was thinking the same progression as you F#dim and B dim (I thought C as more of as passing note).

But please can you tell me how the progression F, F# dim, B dim, G works?

2 diminished chords next to each other. I don't see the secondary functionality.

Again thanks for your response.

(I started to branch to augmented sixth when this progression didn't make sense to me. Looks like I am very wrong there).

#2048253 - 03/14/13 03:00 PM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: VJ.]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,379
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member
chrisbell  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,379
Stockholm, Sweden
a diminished chord is a incomplete dominant chord

F#dim = D7 third in bass

B dim = G7 third in bass

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2048260 - 03/14/13 03:11 PM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: chrisbell]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 91
VJ. Offline
Full Member
VJ.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 91
Cleveland, Ohio
Thanks so much, Chris. Now the whole piece makes sense to me. Piston's Harmony book has a complete chapter dedicated to it. Its time for me to read some of Piston too.

VJ

Last edited by VJ.; 03/14/13 03:28 PM.
#2048556 - 03/15/13 05:10 AM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: VJ.]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,032
spanishbuddha Offline
3000 Post Club Member
spanishbuddha  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,032
UK
That sheet has pedal markings. It's OT, but I think the topic is now answered, so I am surprised as I have read elsewhere not to pedal Bach. I never pedal this Prelude but do hold the LH notes, and legato the RH notes. What do the experts say?

#2048605 - 03/15/13 07:43 AM Re: Bach WTC Book 1 C major Prelude - 3 Mystery Chords? [Re: spanishbuddha]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Andy Platt  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
That sheet has pedal markings. It's OT, but I think the topic is now answered, so I am surprised as I have read elsewhere not to pedal Bach. I never pedal this Prelude but do hold the LH notes, and legato the RH notes. What do the experts say?


There is the entire canon of Baroque music plus this prelude to consider. Hmm, exaggerating a bit but I think this piece causes big problems because it sounds crazily beautiful with the pedal but Bach had no instruments that had a pedal so it could never have been played that way. Of course, to take that further, this was fully romanticized by Gounod in his Ave Maria.

This was one of the first pieces I studied when taking lessons; but it wasn't my usual teacher I studied this with (summer lessons - take your pick.) Anyway, what he said was - you can play it like "that" (pedaled) but I won't let you move on until you can also play it in a more baroque (no pedal) style. And then he played me Glenn Gould's version - which he said I would probably hate - as reference.

So, there you go. Play around with it but a more authentic performance is almost certainly quite fast and much less legato.


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]

Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Gaveau Upright 1928-29
by Petrol. 06/24/17 10:34 PM
Grotrian Steinweg Model 100 1960s
by Petrol. 06/24/17 10:11 PM
hammer time
by David Farley. 06/24/17 08:01 PM
Roland DP-603 Gaps between keys - help!
by yenoham. 06/24/17 07:53 PM
Suggestions for Sequencing Pieces in a Recital
by Eldridge. 06/24/17 07:52 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,438
Posts2,638,787
Members88,176
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0