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I think most people aren't aware that there's more than 1 Mephisto Valse, the other 3 are really great though!
I really like the "other" Mephistos a great deal, but they are late works that sound like they were written by someone else than the person who wrote the first one. And that late Liszt stuff is pretty rough going for many people - I can well imagine the shocked bewilderment of someone encountering those late Mephisto waltzes for the first time, if all they knew was the first one and some of the more popular Liszt pieces. It's a whole different world.
I think most people aren't aware that there's more than 1 Mephisto Valse, the other 3 are really great though!
I really like the "other" Mephistos a great deal, but they are late works that sound like they were written by someone else than the person who wrote the first one. And that late Liszt stuff is pretty rough going for many people - I can well imagine the shocked bewilderment of someone encountering those late Mephisto waltzes for the first time, if all they knew was the first one and some of the more popular Liszt pieces. It's a whole different world.
They are remarkable. The second is perhaps my favourite of the lot. The Mephisto's and the other diabolical works he wrote, like the Csardas Macabre, are among my favourite works by him. He has a terrific output of diabolical music.
The second is perhaps my favourite of the lot. The Mephisto's and the other diabolical works he wrote, like the Csardas Macabre, are among my favourite works by him. He has a terrific output of diabolical music.
For a long time it was a tie between 1 and 2, but lately I've come to feel that the 1st is the more varied and overall best written. The 3rd has some great material, but with due respect, it seems ever so slightly stretched.
As for the Csardas Macabre, I wish I could love it. The piece starts out so promisingly with those open 5ths -and Liszt builds to a nice bloody climax- but the piece so utterly overstays its welcome and eventually falls victim to plain tedium. I realize that most of Liszt's late works are unedited and often little more than sketches, but it's all the more of a pity that Liszt didn't revisit the Csardas and prune it down to something far more cogent.
I can't stop thinking about Liszt! I think about him and I have the same kind of feelings as when I think about a woman with whom I have been in love. Is this normal? Am I the only one in love with Liszt?! [youtube clip] I was playing this one last night, and this music brought to mind direct images of this aforementioned woman, and now Liszt is just as real as her.
I think you win the PC Liszt appreciation award for this post
Now I'm curious... although this isn't Psychology Corner and I am not sure if we discuss such things! Is this a case of sublimation or what? Transferral? Isn't transferral when you fall in love with someone closely associated with the person you are actually in love with? Can you fall in love with a composer who is not actually living? What about Jeremy Denk and his blog entry about Schumann as a living, metaphysical presence in his imagination? It was only the idea of Schumann though... (well yes, I suppose if Denk was seeing the real flesh-and-blood Schumann, that would make for a genuinely troubling blog entry...)
Or is this all about how *cute* Liszt was...
Why belittle honest feelings like this?
I also love Liszt. His willingness to open his soul into composition is unmatched. This alone makes it easy to fall in love with the spirit behind the work. Add in his lifelong charity, years of work improving musical education, technical innovations...need I go on?
Music transcends other art forms precisely due its brainwave carrier capability. Some composers purposely created pretty music - and that's fine. I appreciate them and their music but that's it. Those who wrote for more interesting reasons - aren't they whom we tend to love? (Even if we don't often admit so for fear of being accused of "cuteness" bias.)
P.S. How can anyone listen to the music posted on this thread and not fall in love with Liszt?
Maybe because love is the most subjective of emotions?
Belittle?? No way! Good grief... Tongue in cheek, maybe, but it seemed like a rare & fascinating post and I didn't want it to slide into oblivion unanswered. Or maybe I misread the lack of answers-- maybe it was a respectful silence. Oh, who the heck knows what is going on out there in that vast cauldron of anonymity that is PC. Here was someone being very personal, and I answered, maybe should have left out the slew of questions. But I think the relationship between musicians, the music they play and the composers they love, is complex and fascinating and is quite sturdy enough to take some (well meaning) scrutinizing!!
Belittle?? No way! Good grief... Tongue in cheek, maybe, but it seemed like a rare & fascinating post and I didn't want it to slide into oblivion unanswered. Or maybe I misread the lack of answers-- maybe it was a respectful silence. Oh, who the heck knows what is going on out there in that vast cauldron of anonymity that is PC. Here was someone being very personal, and I answered, maybe should have left out the slew of questions. But I think the relationship between musicians, the music they play and the composers they love, is complex and fascinating and is quite sturdy enough to take some (well meaning) scrutinizing!!
I so agree! I find the Pianist Corner fascinating precisely because of the extremely personal opinions. Love and hate make perfect sense in an artistic context.
Don't you find it a tiny bit troublesome that so many of us have been taught to fear an honest emotional response? Why the need to deconstruct the magic of individuality into "the scientific answer"? .
I find the stereotypical "Bach* transcends Liszt because the former's resonant frequencies and complex enharmonic partials** reverberate in a superior manner" faction an oddly driven contingent. Their discussions seem as fundamentally eccentric as a Van Gogh connoisseur insisting his artist is superior to previous competitors due to his use of cobalt over Prussian blue. It may be an interesting point, but is it relevant to an appreciation of the art?
Bravo to the Franz Liszt appreciation thread! May he live on in our hearts forever. Bravo to all pianists, be they Liszt-maniacs or not!
*Insert any composer **Insert any scientific "proof" of superiority
I've pretty well learned Consolations 1-4, now... and my god; these works are absoloute gems - so much Liszt, and so much humanity in such a small package.
Algernon: I hope, Cecily, I shall not offend you if I state quite frankly and openly that you seem to me to be in every way the visible personification of absolute perfection.
... these works are absoloute gems - so much Liszt, and so much humanity in such a small package.
I remember the first time my teacher played me the second of the Petrarch Sonnets. I think I went into a swoon. Here was music of such manly passion (I'm not being sexist, now), no mushy puppy-love!
... these works are absoloute gems - so much Liszt, and so much humanity in such a small package.
I remember the first time my teacher played me the second of the Petrarch Sonnets. I think I went into a swoon. Here was music of such manly passion (I'm not being sexist, now), no mushy puppy-love!
Indeed. One of the supreme romantic-era solo-piano miniatures.
According to Leslie Howard, the now famous Consolation #3 in D flat was put in place of another piece that was originally there, in C# minor. It apparently eventually found itself into the opening of the first Hungarian Rhapsody.
[video:youtube]n-Juap63AA4[/video]
Interesting stuff! It's a very Chopin-esque melody, it reminds me of one of the Nocturnes. I wonder why Liszt changed it?
Last edited by Jolteon; 04/16/1207:34 PM.
Algernon: I hope, Cecily, I shall not offend you if I state quite frankly and openly that you seem to me to be in every way the visible personification of absolute perfection.
I really like the "other" Mephistos a great deal, but they are late works that sound like they were written by someone else than the person who wrote the first one. And that late Liszt stuff is pretty rough going for many people - I can well imagine the shocked bewilderment of someone encountering those late Mephisto waltzes for the first time, if all they knew was the first one and some of the more popular Liszt pieces. It's a whole different world.
Do you think? I can feel something consistent about Liszt in all of his works, I feel like the other Mephistos do share a similar flavor.
Got started on Mazeppa (waving arms around is super fun), going to order B minor Sonata sheet music! I see a Hal Leonard one that has the publisher marked as Editio Musica Budapest, does anyone know if this means it's just a reprint of Budapest or what?
I really like the "other" Mephistos a great deal, but they are late works that sound like they were written by someone else than the person who wrote the first one. And that late Liszt stuff is pretty rough going for many people - I can well imagine the shocked bewilderment of someone encountering those late Mephisto waltzes for the first time, if all they knew was the first one and some of the more popular Liszt pieces. It's a whole different world.
Do you think? I can feel something consistent about Liszt in all of his works, I feel like the other Mephistos do share a similar flavor.
I exaggerated a bit - like you say, I can get something sort of "Lisztian" in all of his works. But I wonder how much of that is just because I know he wrote them, which enables me to find a commonality?
A recent discovery for me has been one of Liszt's choral masterpieces, the Missa solennis zur Einweihung der Basilika in Gran (Gran Mass). Here are my two favourite movements, the Kyrie and Credo (the Credo being one of the greatest choral movements i've ever heard).
Another one is his Hungarian Coronation Mass. It is a very simple work - very little counterpoint, almost no harmonic experimentation, simple and clear choral/orchestral writing...But all that is also where its charm lies for me. Simple, light-hearted glory. Unfortunately there are no good performances on youtube.
I also got a recording of another of his better choral works - the Psalm XIII, but it didn't really reach me on first listens.
I have to say I mostly disliked Liszt....until I listened to his Sonata in Bm. It's just fantastic. Then I fell in love with Mephisto's Waltz. And then I heard his Am Bach Organ fugue transcription. And then I just went off the deep end. :]. One of my friends is playing the Bm sonata at his senior recital next year, I can't wait! He's presenting three sonata's, the Waldenstein, the Liszt Bm, and one more 20th century sonata by a composer I hadn't heard of till he mentioned him, I forget right now.
Piano/Composition major.
Proud owner of a beautiful Yamaha C7.
Polish: Liszt Petrarch Sonnet 104 Bach WTC book 1 no. 6. Dello Joio Sonata no. 3
Speaking of the B minor, I stumbled across an oddity - a two piano version by Saint Saens in my collection. Of course I had to search Youtube with little hope of finding a recording, but lo and behold:
Why is this piece "Chopin-Liszt"? What did Chopin do to get some credit?
It's a song by Chopin that Liszt transcribed to the piano.
Ahh I see. It is a rather charming little song if you ask me, though I prefer the transcription.
Chopin's songs, while nice, are not among his best works. Liszt's transcriptions greatly improved them and turned them into lovely, nocturne-esque piano pieces - that work very well as a cycle!
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