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#2045196 - 03/08/13 05:30 PM New K-3 - with piercing overtones  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 82
pianomise Offline
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pianomise  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 82
I am a beginner with a new Kawai K-3 (3 months new).

How much "quality" should I expect from this piano?

I ask because in the weeks since I bought it (it was tuned before they sold it to me) some of the keys have lost their proper sound.

The E and F above middle C have a sharp metallic ringing (what I am told are overtones) that the other keys do not.

I have excellent hearing, so this is really noticeable (unpleasant) to me.

The piano is on an inside wall, away from windows and vents, and I have the humidity at 45, what kawai recommends.

The seller (a reputable local store) has told me to be patient, and that the overtones may eventually "go away" with playing. They are not refusing outright to send someone to fix it.

Should I demand that they send out a tuner to fix this...or should I call the Kawai company...or should I wait 6 months?

Thanks.

Mac

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#2045234 - 03/08/13 06:59 PM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Mac,

First of all, now that you have had the piano for three months, and it has acclimatized to your home environment, it is time to have the piano tuned. There is no way to understand exactly what you are hearing and it would need to be diagnosed in person.

Don't panic. There is no need to contact Kawai. Discuss the problem with the tuner, have it tuned, and then make an evaluation.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2045347 - 03/09/13 02:17 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: Jun 2011
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TunerJeff Offline
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TunerJeff  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Oregon Coast
I'm with Marty on this one; you may simply be hearing a little 'fuzz' in the unisons, as they have drifted over time. If the piano's sound was quite pleasing to you, but has gradually shifted since delivery, you may simply require a tuning to restore your happiness. It is very unlikely that you have pounded the hammers into requiring major voicing or reshaping in such a short time! But, wavering unisons can easily create the kind of disturbance and 'twang!' you are hearing.

As Marty suggests; Don't Panic! Have your piano tuned, give it a listen, and discuss your findings with the tuner. I'm almost convinced (...but hampered by not being there!) that your piano is just fine, but needs some attention to the tuning. Especially with a new instrument, less than a year old, the tuning deserves some attention.

Enjoy!


Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com
#2045349 - 03/09/13 02:19 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: Dec 2012
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musicpassion Offline
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musicpassion  Offline
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California, USA
First, how much should you quality should you expect? A lot - it's a quality piano.

It sounds like you have had the piano long enough that it's time to have it tuned. Share your concerns with the tuner and it might just be something simple. If something is wrong, it sounds like your dealer will stand behind the piano... so don't worry about it.


Pianist and Piano Teacher
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#2045382 - 03/09/13 06:37 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: Dec 2007
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jrcallan Offline
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jrcallan  Offline
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Pennsylvania
I believe many would agree that in the first year (maybe two) a new piano should be tuned four (4) times a year, since the strings are still stretching and haven't yet stabilized.

So if the only time your piano has been tuned is before it left the dealer, then you should reserve any concerns until the piano is tuned again. And it may be unwise to expect that it will not need tuning again within a few months.

Even older stable pianos require tuning twice a year as the seasons and associated humidity change.


Baldwin M
Casio PX-330
Casio AP-45
#2045397 - 03/09/13 08:06 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: jrcallan]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
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France
Lets say 2 to 3 times /year during 2 years. it is mostly the wire that reacts to he hammer impacts, if the tuning is done late it will be more expensive because of pitch raising first.
The people that discuss at length the price of a new piano shoul better negociate a prep and 2 years stabilisation for tuning.

(if the dealer tell them that pianos are to be tuned , it is rarely the case those days) wink


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#2045605 - 03/09/13 05:55 PM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 82
pianomise Offline
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pianomise  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 82
Thanks for all the comments.

I guess I will contact the dealer and demand that they have the piano tuned.

Or should I just find a tuner on my own, and not force the dealer to provide a tuning (when it was not part of the original contract)?

Thanks.

mac

#2045633 - 03/09/13 06:51 PM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 534
TunerJeff Offline
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TunerJeff  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 534
Oregon Coast
Dear Mac,

In my experience the dealers that care about their business, and their customer service, always include the first follow-up tuning with the purchase of the piano. That only gets set-aside when the customer is far outside the regular service area of their technicians. Dealers who sell the 'box', and provide no follow-up tuning, are also the kind that don't prep the pianos! A pity.

I just tuned a Bluthner Model-4 for a dealership two states away from here, and the dealership is covering the cost of the tuning, as that is their regular practice, no matter where the piano gets sold. They got my name by calling other dealers in the state, and finding out who did work for them in the right town, and then contacted me directly. But...not everyone is that thorough in insuring the customer satisfaction quotient. You know?

Certainly you should ask if the dealer is providing the follow-up tuning for the piano! But, if they are not, and point to a sales receipt that does not mention the tuning, then you can go right ahead and schedule a tuning with a good tech in your area without delay.

Kawai dealers are generally quite good about care and service. The company is one of the best, and a pleasure to work with, even when the occasional dealership does not meet that standard. Kawai-US has always backed their product 100% in my experience, and the technical folks are first-rate. Kawai Don will back me up on that, I'm sure!

I would not 'demand' a tuning. It's not a given...just a normal business practice among MOST dealerships. If they don't, they don't...and move on!

Mush!


Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com
#2045709 - 03/09/13 10:23 PM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: Sep 2006
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Supply Offline
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Supply  Offline
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Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
If the dealer has included an after-sales tuning in the deal, you would probably be aware of it, but it never hurts to ask. IF the piano was sold at a rock-bottom price, then perhaps no after-sales service is included. As has been stated, a new piano needs more service than one that is a few years old. Do not neglect the piano in its first years - it may come back to haunt you. And especially of you have sensitive ears, you want to make sure your piano is in tune. If the piercing tones persist, voicing will be needed.

#2045785 - 03/10/13 03:38 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,060
musicpassion Offline
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musicpassion  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,060
California, USA
Originally Posted by pianomise
I guess I will contact the dealer and demand that they have the piano tuned.
Or should I just find a tuner on my own, and not force the dealer to provide a tuning (when it was not part of the original contract)?


It's not the dealer's responsibility unless they specifically said they will provide a free in-home tuning.

Tuning the piano is a regular part of maintaining the instrument, not a problem with the piano. You'll need to do this regularly (your environment influences how often) so you may as well start getting to know your tuner. The Piano Technician's Guild website is a good place to look for a tuner.


Pianist and Piano Teacher
#2045817 - 03/10/13 06:26 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 405
jrcallan Offline
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jrcallan  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 405
Pennsylvania
If you perceive the dealer you bought from to be reputable, and you did not negotiate a "first free tuning" you may still have the dealer supply a tuner -- even if you have to pay for it. Or as suggested, you can enlist the aid of an independent tuner.

If you didn't negotiate a free tuning, the dealer really owes you nothing. For example, when you buy a car, oil changes and other routine maintenance are generally your responsibility to pay for. As suggested above, all pianos need tuning frequently -- that is not a flaw, it's just the nature of stringed instruments. You could hardly demand Guitar Center to tune your guitar for you whenever you want to play

Good luck arranging a tuning. Hopefully your tuner/tech can get rid of the metallic ringing -- or advise you whether it involves a warranty concern.


Baldwin M
Casio PX-330
Casio AP-45
#2045832 - 03/10/13 08:44 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
Dave Stahl Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dave Stahl  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
I agree with the other posters. The k-3 is a quality instrument. If you got it straight out of a crate rather than off the floor, the tuning is likely to be unstable. I have a lot experience with these particular instruments, and have found that they become quite stable after a few tunings.

The other thing I can tell you is that if your piano DOES have warranty problems, Kawai will make sure you are taken care of. Kawai is considered to have about the best warranty policy of any company out there.


Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net
#2045854 - 03/10/13 09:37 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Free tuning, or not, after three months any new piano should be tuned. The tuner, hopefully a tuner/tech, can listen and help with the problem that the OP is noticing.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2045889 - 03/10/13 10:43 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
It is the dealer responsability if the piano is sold with "it have been tuned before delivery" (so it does not need tuning after)

If the tuning hold fine then the dealer have nothing to do, but if the customer have sensitive ears (5% of the cases), I believe the dealer will send a tuner for free.

Just for customer satisfaction.
This is a common parctice those days, sometime a piano have been kept long in the sale floor and the dealer believe it begins to be stable enough, (to satisfy most of the pianists) but one never know how the instrument reacts to travel change of position on its 4 casters, etc. A tuning is due normally a few wekks after delivery, and that is also the occasion for the technician to check the piano location, room acoustics, regulation at large.

There is always something to do.

BTW I just get an original "maintenance booklet" from Yamaha, the one in the piano, with all those instructions given to the tech .
The list of things to do for maintenance is impressive, I will make a pic...



Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#2046328 - 03/11/13 02:33 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: Olek]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,265
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Mark R.  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,265
Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted by Olek
BTW I just get an original "maintenance booklet" from Yamaha, the one in the piano, with all those instructions given to the tech .
The list of things to do for maintenance is impressive, I will make a pic...



Please do! I'd be very interested in this...


Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.
#2048609 - 03/15/13 06:46 AM Re: New K-3 - with piercing overtones [Re: pianomise]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 82
pianomise Offline
Full Member
pianomise  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 82
Thanks for all the posts.

I will call the dealer back and see, will they send out a tuner.

Mac


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