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Slow food!

is it your own tuning job ? very nice, in that case... the Paderewsky is probably a mistake, there is no rubato (straight midi) and the speed is way too fast...feel strange and with no meaning to hear that piece that way...

How odd! A critique of a great pianist, performing via a piano roll, and trying to correct a dead pianist. Olek, have you ever seen a spinning wheel?

Grandpianoman, thank you for posting these delightful performances. The temperament suits the piano very well and creates a beautiful sparkle. In that era, there would be oysters, and Beef Wellington was all the rage. Yum!

Marty I know well that music and I heard Paderewsky rolls yet

I am not criticizing the way he played but the fact it was certainly not what we hear there .

the rubato miss totally, as if the roll have been quantized with a software.

You dont notice that ? if yes that tells me something about how you listen to music, but I suggest you did not listen yet to the last piece.

hear : [video:youtube]jrW13GghMso[/video]

No linearity in any measure, at those times rubato was the sign of a good pianist I cant imagine one not using some


Nice girls in the audience, BTW ! too bad she is yet married ! no luck

However, the Liszt was not referenced by Grandpianoman, it was Mendelssohn. The concept of rubato in the "Spinning Song" is truly absurd.

xx sorry

And my father was Polish !!!

how do you call that ?
[video:youtube]xSHBAzj3wC4[/video]


on the roll it sound as a chicken eating grain !

Hi Olek,

The speed of the Spinning Song can be adjusted to any tempo, I just happened to choose that one, perhaps a bit too fast. Will re-record it at a slower tempo. My Weber Duo-Art is actually a 4ft8 piano in a very small room, it's never going to sound like the one you posted in the video.

Yes, that is my tuning...thanks....I used the Ipad Verituner ETD set for a small grand, using the 1/9 comma meantione temperament.

All the reproducing pianos of that era could not capture 100% of what the pianist played. Never the less, what they did capture was quite amazing for the time period.

There is an excellent website in England that explains in great detail, how the reproducers worked etc. http://www.pianola.org/reproducing/reproducing.cfm

Hi Marty, Andy,

Thanks!,,,,Lol,,,,I think you are right about the food. These grand pianos were very expensive back then. If I remember correctly, this 1930 Weber for example, was about $3200...my 1927 M&H RBB was about $7,000....a LOT of money back then. The rich could afford them....only 74 M&H RBB's were made...they would def be dinning on beef wellington etc. Most of the reproducing pianos that were made were uprights, much more affordable to the masses.

I wonder what 'slow' food tastes like.

Yes, this temperament suits this small grand very well. It seems to work with the classical and the popular rolls. I will probably tune my M&H BB with it and see what happens.

Grandpianoman,

It may have been addressed elsewhere, but I'm curious if the RBB has the same "innards" as a BB? Just a difference in case structure, like the S&S "R" series, for the Duo-Art?

Thinking about the tempo of this Spinning Song Olek, I believe I was influenced by Rachmaninoff's interpretation. I have his original Ampico roll of this piece, which is played much faster than in your video.

Here is an example of a live recording of Rachmaninoff playing this piece. As you can hear, it's a matter of interpretation as to the speed and rubato etc that one uses.


Rachmaninoff live recording Spinning Song

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=d6o0oQaBQcc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dd6o0oQaBQcc

Hi Marty,

Good question....the only changes that M&H made from the BB to the RBB, "R" stands for Reproducer, are on the underside of the piano and the piano legs. The RBB had to have several of the tension resonators removed, and I believe the beams were moved as well, in order to accommodate the Ampico mechanism. The length of the piano is the same. The legs on an RBB, any reproducer for that matter, were usually double legs...on the RBB,
they were shaped somewhat like a "V".

The Duo-Art system was different, in that in order to accommodate the design of the mechanism, they had to shorten the piano by about 5-7 inches. As a result, my Weber case measures 6ft, but the actual harp from front to back is 56 inches.

This Weber Grand is new to me. I received many boxes of rolls with it. I thought I saw the Hungarian Rhapsody by Paderewski the other day going through the boxes....and yes I did! Just recorded it ...please forgive the tuning, as some unisons are out, and it's drifted slightly after 4 days of concerts..:) This piano is actually staying in better tune than my M&H RBB.

I've tried to duplicate the tempo to the video you posted Olek. This is a 4ft 8 piano you are hearing, in a smallish room. Straight recording, no processing other than to normalize, (balance volume and peaks etc.) 1930 Weber Duo-Art 6ft Grand....Tuned with the 1/9 comma meantone temperament with the Ipad Verituner set for small grands etc.

"RHAPSODIE HONGROISE" No.2, by Liszt, in C Sharp Minor, This original roll recorded in October, 1923--Played by Ignace Jan Paderwski on the Weber FR Duo-Art, #6670-0.mp3

https://www.box.com/s/vjy6q0gcsitwaf2nbzo3

Sorry, GP--I couldn't find a link to the actual song , but Greg Brown wrote it, and I pulled the lyrics from lyricsmania.com. I heard him sing it on Prairie Home Companion some number of years ago, but I don't remember him singing "blahblahblah" in the last verse. Maybe someone else here remembers the song... A quick internet search shows it's on a 2004 CD, "In the Hills of California: Live from the Kate Wolf Music Festival 1997-2003."

SLOW FOOD by Greg Brown

People want that slow food
Two minutes and they grouch
But give me ham baked all day long
And help me to the couch
Help me to the sofa
Put the quiet music on
I will lie and think about that ham
Long after it is gone.

I want some slo-o-o-o-ow food.

I don't want no food with cute names
No neon on a sign
A man can't live on advertising slogans
And conceptual design
Let somebody else go surf and turf
Someone else go carry out
Me, I want my food to know itself
Before it knows my mouth.

I want some slo-o-o-o-ow food
With all the love cooked in.

Why don't we start it in the mornin'
Leave us plenty of time for lovin'
Weekend homemade hot fresh bread
Make the whole house smell like an oven
And let it all just simmer
Cook in the good juices and the greases
Then we'll sit down at the table, baby
And slowly tear it into pieces.

I want some slo-o-o-o-ow food

What's the big rush?..../Don't want no hard-hearted Hardee's, no
Muck-muck-muck-muck-donald's....I want a chef, not a clown, to make my
Food.../it can even be tofu with the right kinda sauce..../blahblahblah-

I want some slo-o-o-o-ow food
With all the love cooked in

What a hoot!! Thanks for posting that.


In the spirit of slow and good food...here is a toe-tapping Fox Trot...this will make you smile. No human could play this live with these accents etc....Duo-Art was known for this kind of interpretation of these Fox-Trots.

1/9 comma meantone temperament. --JUST A MEMORY-- 1927-- Played by Constance Mering on the Weber Duo-Art #713418.mp3

https://www.box.com/s/qpqb5qrapcacae2iv8an

Hi Grandpianoman,

That's a fun little Fox Trot. I don't hear anything unplayable in live performance, however. Tricky? - Yea. Impossible? - Nah.

Your little Weber is a sweet little piano. You seem to keep the Weber and the Mason maxed at all times. Congratulations!

I noticed that you were able to filter out the motor noise of the player unit. It makes a big difference.

Enjoying,

Yes, I also heard faster interpretations by Rubinstein, etc. What I noticed on the roll is that it have been "quantified", (I suppose someone "correct" the rolls, or it is done at the moment the original is reproduced by a software plus a robot, etc, the same "mistakes" have occur since ages with the scores , when the copyist (?) changed harmonies, notes or tempis to better suit the taste of the era or believing in mistakes from the composer )

All real interpretations have a nice rubato, the roll sound like the free midi files that can be find on the net . speed straight, all quater notes perfetly lining, it is probably not representative of the real pianist.

But that is just a roll, you have other that play better than that... sorry for the remarks ...

5is not it more probable that the roll was copied for pianos without the function for timning ? on such instruments, fox trots are more musical in the end, my friends with their midified Ricca (that read midi files) have the problem of too straight and "square" tempis, i suggested they that they could use a software to modify the "swing" directly in the midi files. (Cubase can do that and probably many other)

Your unisons are neat !

Camille Saint-Saens decided to revive works by M.A. Charpentier and publish them. He founds hundreds of "mistakes" (cross and false relations) and change them to make the harmony more " harmonious".

Thanks for the link, I did not noticed that, it is instructive and interesting.

Thanks!....yes that one gets my toes-a-tappin' and a smile. Here is another one that is similar. "You're the Cream in my Coffee" https://www.box.com/s/i1u6u2gjabnjgkfbcvko What funny titles they came up with in the 1920's.

Well thanks, I try to keep them in top shape...it's a fair amount of work. My only contribution to that endeavor,is the tuning. All the other work, regulation, voicing etc, I leave to the pros. I would like to learn how to regulate the action and the voicing. Voicing seems to be very important when a piano is played as much as mine is. I guess that's the case with any piano that has a lot of use, especially with concert pieces.

One thing that is different on this piano than a normal reproducer...and that is the "Touchrail" www.pitchlock.com I think this device has helped the Duo-Art to be better at what it does so well, accents and repitition. All the keys downweights are set evenly thanks to this device.

Ahh, that dreaded motor noise....it was by accident ,,,,the mic position is what helped that. Part of that hum is accentuated by the room placement, which is right in the corner. Low frequencies are louder.

Glad you are enjoying the music.