Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
128 registered members (17curleyj, anotherscott, amad23, 38 invisible), 1,594 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#2044654 - 03/07/13 06:14 PM Tuners who play vs tuners who don't  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,464
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Mark...  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,464
Jersey Shore
I didn't want to mess with the other tuner thread, but was curious.

I seem to have a better feeling about tuners who play vs tuners who don't. It's like they understand what you are hearing and looking for in the tuning or other work. When a tuner plays a beautiful piece on a freshly tuned piano, when they are done, it just seems they get it.

I'm quite amazed at tuners who aren't players, seems strange.

Do you feel a tuner who plays can do a better job vs a tuner who does not play?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2044657 - 03/07/13 06:19 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
There have been very many non-playing tuners. There is no doubt about it.

However, I prefer a tuner who can play and really assess a piano from the pianist's viewpoint. I wonder about action regulators who don't play?


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2044661 - 03/07/13 06:26 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 224
HalfStep Offline
Full Member
HalfStep  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 224
Boston, MA
Interesting. I assumed most tuners were players. Seems like a natural progression.

#2044664 - 03/07/13 06:28 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 198
tend to rush Offline
Full Member
tend to rush  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 198
The majority of tuners I've run into don't play - to speak of. I'm ok with that, but a little concerned about their piano recommendations, which are pretty much based on clarity - how clearly they can hear the beats. An important criteria, for sure, but hardly the only one. Color, attack - they don't really think about that much. Can be excellent tuners, though, in my experience.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2044668 - 03/07/13 06:39 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 24,943
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 24,943
Oakland
I play, but I do not play particularly well. However, my judgement is clouded by comparison with those who do play well, sometimes spectacularly so, that I tune for.


Semipro Tech
#2044671 - 03/07/13 06:47 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Playing well definitely helps, but isn't necessary... many pianists have no concept of what constitutes good touch or tone. My mentor can't play the piano to save his life, but he's one of the best techs in North America.

#2044675 - 03/07/13 06:54 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,540
Rich Galassini Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,540
Philadelphia/South Jersey
I have had a number of technicians work with me over the years - several dozen, in fact. Some had masters degrees in piano performance and others had little to no musical experience. I see no correlation between the repair and tuning aspect and whether or not a technician is a player.

However, when it comes to concert preparation and fine voicing I see a leaning towards technicians who are musical. This does not necessarily mean that they are pianists but that they are able to discern musical differences, particularly in tone from note to note.

I have also seen professional level pianists that could not master these skills, so although they are somewhat related IMHO they are not steadfast in any way.

My 2 cents,


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#2044681 - 03/07/13 07:13 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,491
Bob Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Bob  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,491
Florida
For my clients, it's an advantage for me to run through a few songs after tuning. I am not at a pro level, but clients still enjoy listening. For me, I'm checking octaves, unisons, repetition, regulation, pedals, listening for tonal issues, buzzing, feeling for any sticking I missed while tuning. It's just one more level of checks that helps me prevent call backs.


#2044821 - 03/07/13 11:31 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Bob]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Seattle, WA USA
I play just well enough to have a feel for what a virtuoso experiences. The advantage in playing mainly is the speed with which you can diagnose. Tech's who don't play have to separate each element to verify how the piano is operating. There are techs that are excellent pianist but not great techs-so I don't think you can judge a tech by his playing chops alone.

There are tuners who are oblivious to fine musical nuance-because all they listen to are, how partials intersect.

Last edited by Ed McMorrow, RPT; 03/07/13 11:33 PM.

In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2044823 - 03/07/13 11:42 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 5
MichaelPatrick Offline
Junior Member
MichaelPatrick  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 5
Seattle, WA
Just because someone can build an airplane doesn't mean they can fly it. smile


-MPH
#2044862 - 03/08/13 01:59 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 24,943
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 24,943
Oakland
Of course, airplanes have been built that nobody can fly, and even more that nobody can fly safely!


Semipro Tech
#2044959 - 03/08/13 10:12 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Originally Posted by Mark...
I didn't want to mess with the other tuner thread, but was curious.

I seem to have a better feeling about tuners who play vs tuners who don't. It's like they understand what you are hearing and looking for in the tuning or other work. When a tuner plays a beautiful piece on a freshly tuned piano, when they are done, it just seems they get it.

I'm quite amazed at tuners who aren't players, seems strange.

Do you feel a tuner who plays can do a better job vs a tuner who does not play?


Reverse that. Should an excellent or even a medeorice pianists be able to tune a piano in order to play one? Of course not., why? Because one has nothing to do with the other. I am not playing while I am tuning. I am tuning. Nor am I tuning the piano while I am playing it as that task has already been accomplished.


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#2044960 - 03/08/13 10:14 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,189
malkin Offline
4000 Post Club Member
malkin  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,189
*sigh* Salt Lake City
How about dancing?
Should tuners be able to dance?
wink


Having power is not nearly as important as what you choose to do with it.
– Roald Dahl

#2044961 - 03/08/13 10:19 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: malkin]  
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 477
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member
shaolin95  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 477
You see this a lot in sports. Just because someone was a great player does not make him a great coach.
Still, not sure how one could dedicate to tuning pianos and not play them...feels odd to me. lol

Last edited by shaolin95; 03/08/13 10:25 AM.

*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)
#2044966 - 03/08/13 10:37 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: malkin]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 752
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member
Mwm  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 752
Originally Posted by malkin
How about dancing?
Should tuners be able to dance?
wink


No, but dancers should be able to carry a tune.

#2044969 - 03/08/13 10:42 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 24,943
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 24,943
Oakland
Dancers should be able to count, but somehow some of them manage without.


Semipro Tech
#2044981 - 03/08/13 11:03 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 292
Steven Y. A. Offline
Full Member
Steven Y. A.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 292
Toronto
I dont think theres no direct relation - more like a natural progression that people assume.
my high school physics teacher teaches piano but he could not even play, and he couldnt play badminton but hes a coach for my high school badminton squad also University of Toronto badminton squad.

Last edited by Steven Y. A.; 03/08/13 04:37 PM.

PLEYEL P124
#2045133 - 03/08/13 04:33 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 50
fishbulb Offline
Full Member
fishbulb  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 50
Very interesting discussion ... I would argue that a pianist should at least understand how to tune and regulate their piano, and a piano tuner/tech should know how to play, at least at a mediocre level.

If both the player and the tuner better understood each other, I think both would be more satisfied with their work and would be better able to communicate with one another.

The piano is one of the few instruments where the musicians that play it often know very little, or even nothing, about their own instrument. It is also one of the few instruments where the people who work on them often can't even play them.

As someone steeped in the world of acoustic and electric guitars, this seems bizarre to me. I would NEVER hire a guitar or amplifier tech who didn't play guitar (at least at a mediocre level), and honestly, I'm not sure there ever ARE any techs like that.

#2045169 - 03/08/13 05:40 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: fishbulb]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,250
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,250
New York City
Originally Posted by fishbulb
Very interesting discussion ... I would argue that a pianist should at least understand how to tune and regulate their piano, and a piano tuner/tech should know how to play, at least at a mediocre level.

If both the player and the tuner better understood each other, I think both would be more satisfied with their work and would be better able to communicate with one another.
What advantage is there to playing at a "mediocre level" vs. not playing at all?

I think tuning a piano is far harder than tuning most other instruments. For non pianos, it's a given that players have to learn to tune because this is necessary each time they play. So it shouldn't be surprising that violinists, for example, know how to tune their violins.

A good piano tech knows how to communicate and explain things about a piano since it's just a fact of life that at least 90%(but probably much closer to 100%) of pianists don't know how to tune or regulate a piano.

In theory what you say is makes sense, but for many reasons including the complexity involved in tuning and regulating I doubt it will ever be true that more than a handful of pianists will understand this.

#2045175 - 03/08/13 05:55 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: fishbulb]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Originally Posted by fishbulb
Very interesting discussion ... I would argue that a pianist should at least understand how to tune and regulate their piano, and a piano tuner/tech should know how to play, at least at a mediocre level.

The problem with this statement is that the comparison is not of equal concepts. To be fair, 'the piano tuner/tech should understand how to play,' would need to be used.

Understanding a concept, or having the ability to execute it, is totally different in practice.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2045271 - 03/08/13 10:29 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,248
Norbert Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Happy Birthday Norbert  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,248
Surrey, B.C.
The difference I have witnessed over the years is not so much playing versus non-playing but HOW to play and listen to sound.

The very best were all concert technicians for whom tuning, voicing and regulation was not three but one single job.

Typically, when voicing [after tuning is finished first] they play SECTIONS of keys, pull out the action and voice for tonal evenness along neighboring keys. After few sections are done, they again test their work playing in the very area they had just worked before.

In European countries like Germany for example, it's mandatory for graduate techs to also be players, not advanced perhaps but capable of "listening in" what's happening and what they're doing.

Having said that, I've also seen great techs who don't play so it's not an exact science.

However, when it comes to touch and understanding "touch-weight", techs who are players themselves may again have an edge

Like the "setting of pins" during tuning, *feel* is an important component and those who can 'listen in' by playing themselves, seem to have a distinct advantage.

My 2 cents.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 03/08/13 10:37 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#2045339 - 03/09/13 02:37 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,205
Dale Fox Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dale Fox  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,205
Nor California Sacramento area
The only advantage I am sure of in being able to play to at least a moderate level is where it applies to voicing the tuned and regulated instrument. The ability to play chromatically with some semblance of control is very useful to finishing up on a fine voicing.

My shop partner doesn't play anything except the tuner's dirge, but he is an exceptional tuner and regulator. I believe I have some advantage when it comes to final voicing because I can play with a level of control that he doesn't possess. Beyond that I know of no other advantage.


Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding
#2045342 - 03/09/13 02:51 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 389
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member
Nash. Piano Rescue  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 389
East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
I don't tune pianos but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. I've never had a player though question why I dont tune when we present them with some scratch made part for a broken piano that hasn't been made in 100 years.

Tuning is mentally exhausting and I am glad I can sub that out because these Holiday Inn bills are getting ridiculous.


J. Christie
Nashville Piano Rescue
www.NashvillePianoRescue.com
East Nashville
Bowling Green, KY
Scottsville KY.
Chamber of Commerce
Member/Sponsor

Putting inspiration in the hands of area musicians
Through restoration/renovation
#2045385 - 03/09/13 07:46 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 816
kapelli Offline
500 Post Club Member
kapelli  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 816
Poland
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty

The problem with this statement is that the comparison is not of equal concepts. To be fair, 'the piano tuner/tech should understand how to play,' would need to be used.

Understanding a concept, or having the ability to execute it, is totally different in practice.


This is exactly what I wanted to say. Piano tuner who can't play is for me some kind of handicaped person for me. In terms of doing best piano as possible.
OK, for home tuners for people who play for themselves and want to have piano just in tune and sound ok that kind of tuner is ok.

For high-demanding performance artist this kind of tuner/technician would be not acceptable. Person who don't play dont understand all aspects of playng, can't hear the subtle nuances etc. Probably will have also hard to understand sometimes the pianist artistic language about the sound.

The technican doesn't need to have a piano degree, but however should be trained to play some mid-level piano pieces.
Unfortunately, the piano is from one side combination of psyhics, from other, something that you can't easily measure and you can only describe by using your senses, and here is where the problem of playing vs non playing tuner starts to come.

Ability of playing just broaden the mind of tuner, so he can look more wider and complex on all aspects of piano. He can understand and fell many things, which non-playing just isn't able to catch. Of course, if the tuner is kind of piano-lover, not the person who once thought "i don't know what to do in my life so maybe I will be a piano tuner", becase the latter playing or non playing will be always bad tuner with no heart to have fun with pianos.

#2045399 - 03/09/13 09:12 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
I'm starting to think that one of the difficulties of this discussion is the definition of "tuner." I consider that profession to be different from a "tuner/technician."

There are many fine tuners who don't do voicing or regulation. It would seem, in that instance, that playing skills are lessened or not needed at all. When it comes to tuning/voicing/regulating it seems, at least to me, that some piano playing skills would be necessary to achieve a fine results.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2045411 - 03/09/13 09:44 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 816
kapelli Offline
500 Post Club Member
kapelli  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 816
Poland
Exactly Marty, this what you wrote is something that is also in my post and I fully agree smile

These are completely different worlds - tuners who are just tuning for homes, hotels et., and people who are preparing performance pianos and doing some other beuatiful things with action.

#2045435 - 03/09/13 10:35 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Kapelli, I'm not even pushing it as far as "concert tuning and prep." I think it applies to home instruments, as well.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2045447 - 03/09/13 11:14 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Seattle, WA USA
People are much too varied in their individual characteristics to make hard distinctions between some skills-and others skills. There are great concert techs who hardly play. There are mediocre techs who play. There are great concert techs who play extremely well.

I think this topic should be understood for the limits of it's breadth. Evaluate any tech by what the finished work is like in reference to the expectations-not by what their pianistic skills are.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2045454 - 03/09/13 11:32 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Ed, the whole premise of the thread was the preference of the pianist in terms of the keyboard skills of a tuner. There is no doubt that there are many fine tuners who don't play, but the owner of the piano may very well prefer one who does.

Again, there is the mixing of a tuner and a technician. There would be a large difference between a "concert tuning" and a "full concert prep."

As I stated near the top of the thread, my preference is for a tuner who also can play the piano.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2045465 - 03/09/13 11:53 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Seattle, WA USA
Marty,
Your preference can be construed as a type of "prejudice". I was only trying to point that out in a less direct way.

I have had experience where my pianistic skills intimidate customers from explaining their needs. So the skill set and personality types can intersect in seemingly infinite combinations that a thoughtful person will keep in mind so as to limit the cost of their prejudices to all the people they meet in their life.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2045481 - 03/09/13 12:35 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Oh Paaa-leeze!

Preference is not prejudice. I prefer cherry pie. Does that mean that I hold prejudice against blueberry? You are pushing this past the bounds of reality.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2045545 - 03/09/13 04:20 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Seattle, WA USA
Marty,
I am most definitely not pushing this "past the bounds of reality". I am trying to be civil and fair minded while adding something to the conversation that I felt needed to be there. No more, no less. I hope everyone else attempts the same in all their personal interactions. Cheers!


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2045615 - 03/09/13 07:07 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,756
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member
AJF  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,756
Toronto
To the best of my knowledge my tuner doesn't play with any level of proficiency. Yet he was a final voicer for Bosendorfer in Vienna for 11 years and Oscar Peterson's last regular tuner. I could care less if he knows how to play fur Elise or Claire de lune. What matters to me is that when I sit down and play my instrument after it's been tuned, voiced and regulated it sounds perfect and stays that way for several months.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
#2045973 - 03/10/13 02:46 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,248
Norbert Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Happy Birthday Norbert  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,248
Surrey, B.C.
I thought this was an interesting subject and contacted the Osar Walcker School in Ludwigsburg Germany.

This is the school where German graduated "piano builder" journeymen return to study for their "Meister" degree, 2 years

Oscar-Walcker-Schule wrote this:

Quote
"Das ist eine alte, generelle Frage im Instrumentenbau. In der Regel sollte der Erbauer sein Instrument beherrschen, um es selbst beurteilen zu können. Aber in unseren heutigen indutriellen Großbetrieben kann man sicher auch Instrumente (mit-)bauen, ohne sie spielen zu müssen.... diese Frage wird sicher jeder für sich individuell beantworten müssen..."


Translation:

"This is an old question for instrument makers. Ideally the builder/maker should master the instrument to be able to judge things him/herself. However, in today's industrial manufacturing plants one can certainly also make or "co-manufacture" instruments without having to play.....the question needs to ba answered by everyone him/herself."

Of note is that German piano builders are not automatically being trained to become top tuners, i.e. "concert technicians" but rather makers of the instrument.

I thought this was an interesting input from elsewhere....

Norbert smile





www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#2046148 - 03/10/13 08:11 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,765
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,765
San Jose, CA
I don't think I can answer the OP's question, because as far as I can think, I don't know any piano techs who don't also play, at least some. Some are wonderful players. It reminds me of one of those binary star systems: two suns, orbiting each other. You would think it would be rare, but just this morning the Science channel said that it is an arrangement that is actually observed very often.

You would think the two skills sets need not concur, each being an art and science sufficient unto itself (and sufficiently difficult to acquire). If I were a young fellow, I might devote myself to both, but as it is, I have to work about as hard as I can just on playing. So I'm happy to let my tech use his hard-gained technical knowledge to keep me going. (He's one of those techs who plays like a pro. The brilliance of a double-star--- a good thing, because my music room is dark as a mine.)


Clef

#2046178 - 03/10/13 09:10 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,964
Rickster Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,964
Georgia, USA
Seems like the opinions here keep going around in circles… in my mind, I wouldn’t think the ability to play the piano is an absolute prerequisite or necessity to become an excellent tuner.

Any tuner would have to be able to play the notes/intervals/chords to some extent in order to tell if the piano is in tune.

Something that surprised me a while back was the fact that our own Steve Cohen does not play the piano… yet he is a highly successful piano dealer/industry consultant. smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#2046183 - 03/10/13 09:19 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 445
j&j Offline
Full Member
j&j  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 445
Southwest
My RPT can play, but it's his ear and years of professional tuning, voicing, and regulating I pay for. I selected him because he 's done concert tunings and has been trained on S&S and Yamaha......and he's punctual, reliable, honest and very helpful. He knows the voice and sound I'm looking for and knows the acoustics of my great room.

What more could I want?


J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso
[Linked Image]
#2046188 - 03/10/13 09:24 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: j&j]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 224
HalfStep Offline
Full Member
HalfStep  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 224
Boston, MA
Originally Posted by j&j
My RPT can play, but it's his ear and years of professional tuning, voicing, and regulating I pay for. I selected him because he 's done concert tunings and has been trained on S&S and Yamaha......and he's punctual, reliable, honest and very helpful. He knows the voice and sound I'm looking for and knows the acoustics of my great room.

What more could I want?


I just smiled when I read this. The tuner that just came to tune my piano, the first complimentary tuning, was a half hour early! It was awesome! The one I had for my other piano was about that late... but, I am slightly south and understand Boston traffic too well! I commuted to NU for the past three years. Not always fun.

#2046193 - 03/10/13 09:32 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
I know some techs who show up two hours late.... small wonder they still have clients. That said, stuff happens, and it can be difficult to stay on schedule if you're visiting four or five different pianos in a day.

#2046208 - 03/10/13 10:14 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: beethoven986]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 224
HalfStep Offline
Full Member
HalfStep  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 224
Boston, MA
Originally Posted by beethoven986
I know some techs who show up two hours late.... small wonder they still have clients. That said, stuff happens, and it can be difficult to stay on schedule if you're visiting four or five different pianos in a day.


Yes, as they say, @#$% happens. But a two hour late appt. does warrant a call, or marked discount? Maybe?

#2046239 - 03/10/13 10:56 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: HalfStep]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Originally Posted by HalfStep
Originally Posted by beethoven986
I know some techs who show up two hours late.... small wonder they still have clients. That said, stuff happens, and it can be difficult to stay on schedule if you're visiting four or five different pianos in a day.


Yes, as they say, @#$% happens. But a two hour late appt. does warrant a call, or marked discount? Maybe?


A call? Definitely. If I expect to be running more than 10-15 minutes late, I call and apologize. Discounts... unlikely.

#2046255 - 03/10/13 11:24 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: beethoven986]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 224
HalfStep Offline
Full Member
HalfStep  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 224
Boston, MA
Originally Posted by beethoven986
Originally Posted by HalfStep
Originally Posted by beethoven986
I know some techs who show up two hours late.... small wonder they still have clients. That said, stuff happens, and it can be difficult to stay on schedule if you're visiting four or five different pianos in a day.


Yes, as they say, @#$% happens. But a two hour late appt. does warrant a call, or marked discount? Maybe?


A call? Definitely. If I expect to be running more than 10-15 minutes late, I call and apologize. Discounts... unlikely.


Okay! No discounts, but I would appreciate a call

#2046287 - 03/11/13 01:06 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: HalfStep]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Originally Posted by HalfStep
Originally Posted by beethoven986
Originally Posted by HalfStep
Originally Posted by beethoven986
I know some techs who show up two hours late.... small wonder they still have clients. That said, stuff happens, and it can be difficult to stay on schedule if you're visiting four or five different pianos in a day.


Yes, as they say, @#$% happens. But a two hour late appt. does warrant a call, or marked discount? Maybe?


A call? Definitely. If I expect to be running more than 10-15 minutes late, I call and apologize. Discounts... unlikely.


Okay! No discounts, but I would appreciate a call


I think anyone would; it's common courtesy. Unfortunately, technicians aren't always good at PR skills (and I'm certainly guilty of this to an extent, sometimes). Fortunately, technology is making it a lot easier to plan our days than even five years ago.

#2046319 - 03/11/13 02:39 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member
OperaTenor  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
Sandy Eggo, California
Put me in the same camp with Bob. I can play a few pieces well enough, but I'm not a proficient pianist (I play mostly Scott Joplin). When I tune, I play a few pieces in different keys as a final once-over at the very end. It doesn't necessarily make be a better tuner/technician; it just gives me a different perspective.

Also, as Rich said, one doesn't necessarily have to be a pianist to be musical. My musical forte is singing; I'm a professional opera singer. I'm fairly certain the musicality that comes along with that is what makes me a better tuner/technician, including the areas of voicing and regulation, even though I'm a mediocre pianist.

One thing about regulation: Achieving the optimal performance and responsiveness from an action is more technical expertise than musicianship; knowing the proper specifications and applying the proper adjustments, and understanding what physically takes place when the key is depressed - and how it should feel, count more than being a player.

As far as reciprocity between players and tuners is concerned, I can't tell you how many times otherwise excellent pianists were unable to communicate what was wrong with their piano because they understood almost nothing about how it worked. Do I gripe about their lack of technical knowledge? No, I try to help them understand their instrument a little better (if they're open to it), and do my best to make them happy with their piano.



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#2047170 - 03/12/13 06:16 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 187
miscrms Offline
Full Member
miscrms  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 187
Phoenix, AZ
Its certainly a very interesting question/discussion!

It would seem to me that learning to play half decently would be a pretty good way for a tuner/tech to learn to hear and feel whats going on in the instrument, and the development of control would certainly be useful. I'm not sure its the only way, or even a particularly efficient way though. I can imagine that with the same amount of time/effort devoted to direct learning of how things should feel and sound as one would spend becoming competent at playing, a tuner/tech could be at least as good if not better at his/her craft.

I can certainly see why many tuners/techs would be inspired to learn to play (or have been inspired by playing to learn to tune), and why some customers would enjoy hearing their tuner play. I also think the point made about intimidation is interesting/important. I can see it coming across as, "here's how good your piano should sound if you play it right." I can imagine offering to let the customer play first would reinforce the "I'm hear to make you sound your best" relationship, and then offering to play something if they are shy or would rather just focus on listening. "Aw, what a nice/thoughtful/talented guy/gal." wink

I see an interesting parallel to the engineering world here. There is a constant debate over "reference designs", ie designing a sample end product to show off the part you actually specialize in to potential customers. For some customers this is a great way to seal the deal by demonstrating real world performance, for others its a big put off. Its perceived as "here let me show you how to do your job so you don't screw up our nice part." Interestingly its usually the more competent customers who have the later reaction, and the clueless ones who love the reference design.

Rob

#2047176 - 03/12/13 06:27 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
I have a tuner/tech who I think does a superb job. It took some time to find him. He always plays before he tunes, as well as after. About the third tuning, I asked why he played before tuning. He replied that he needed to remind himself of the personality of my piano. Great answer - Instant trust!


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2047218 - 03/12/13 07:42 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,964
Rickster Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,964
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
He replied that he needed to remind himself of the personality of my piano. Great answer - Instant trust!

Yes, pianos do indeed have their own personalities, for better or worse. In fact, that personality can change from morning to evening! smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#2047387 - 03/13/13 12:38 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Rickster]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Seattle, WA USA
Do customers want to pay me for the 15 to 20 minutes of playing time I would enjoy when I come to service their piano?

It is better to play before you tune and service because that tells you what the piano is like and then you can ask the customer if they notice the problems you do.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2047445 - 03/13/13 03:18 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 24,943
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 24,943
Oakland
A lot of problems go away with tuning. So you have to check before and after.


Semipro Tech
#2047507 - 03/13/13 08:02 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,964
Rickster Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,964
Georgia, USA
Okay, I’m going to throw this out there as a matter of conversation… I have no hard data or statistics to back this up and it is pure instinct/intuition/gut feeling on my part. I’m thinking that there are more tuners who play the piano to some degree, (and some quite well) than there are who don’t.

My reasoning is that, based on what I have read and learned here on PW over the years, and my own personal experiences, many piano players become interested in piano technology just as many piano players become interested in buying and selling pianos, or being piano teachers. It’s all related in some way.

Many piano dealers are also players (but not all) and many technicians are players (but not all) and many piano teachers are players (but not all smile ).

Just my .02

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#2047514 - 03/13/13 08:14 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,491
Bob Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Bob  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,491
Florida
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Do customers want to pay me for the 15 to 20 minutes of playing time I would enjoy when I come to service their piano?

It is better to play before you tune and service because that tells you what the piano is like and then you can ask the customer if they notice the problems you do.


I play before and after. Before the tuning is more of a quick chromatic scale, a few chords, evaluating pitch, repetition, regulation, and voicing while getting the history and any current problems from the customer.

Afterwards, I play chords, arpeggios, and songs to check the tuning, regulation, voicing. I can get the client to applaud after 5 min of playing - 15-20 minutes is excessive, unless it's a very nice piano, and I've got the time....In that case, I get out some sheet music, and don't charge the customer for that.

Clients often say "my piano never sounded so good" or "will it play that well when I sit down" or "let me open the windows so my neighbors will think it's me".....being able to play the piano, even if it's the same songs at each tuning is an advantage. It sets you apart. People remember it. If I don't play a bit after tuning, I'll get comments "oh, I was waiting for you to play".....and I'll have to sit down and poke at the keys for a bit. I don't play well, but clients enjoy it anyway.

#2047580 - 03/13/13 10:44 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Rickster]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Originally Posted by Rickster
Okay, I’m going to throw this out there as a matter of conversation… I have no hard data or statistics to back this up and it is pure instinct/intuition/gut feeling on my part. I’m thinking that there are more tuners who play the piano to some degree, (and some quite well) than there are who don’t.

My reasoning is that, based on what I have read and learned here on PW over the years, and my own personal experiences, many piano players become interested in piano technology just as many piano players become interested in buying and selling pianos, or being piano teachers. It’s all related in some way.

Many piano dealers are also players (but not all) and many technicians are players (but not all) and many piano teachers are players (but not all smile ).

Just my .02

Rick


True, but at the same time, some pianists who become tuners get something I like to call "piano saturation". For example, after that WHOLE STEP pitch raise I did last week, the last thing I wanted to see was another piano! I find that the more I tune, the less I want to play.

#2047605 - 03/13/13 11:36 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,964
Rickster Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,964
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by beethoven986
True, but at the same time, some pianists who become tuners get something I like to call "piano saturation". For example, after that WHOLE STEP pitch raise I did last week, the last thing I wanted to see was another piano! I find that the more I tune, the less I want to play.

Very true…

I honestly don’t refer to myself as a tuner, per-se, but I’ve learned that tuning and servicing pianos can be very tedious, painstaking and time comsuming. I have spent as much as 8 hours + at one time tuning and servicing my piano. The results were great, and worth it, but at the end of that time I was not in the mood to spend a few more hours playing. So, I can relate to what you are saying.

In fact, if you can aford it, find an excellent tuner to tune your paino as often as needed, and just consentrate on playing! smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#2047691 - 03/13/13 02:10 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,250
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,250
New York City
I think it's clear from this thread that it's not necessary to play the piano at all or play the piano at a high level to be an excellent tuner. This is evidenced by the fact that it seems that people agree that some very excellent techs have no or minimal playing ability.

OTOH I also think it's possible that playing skills at various levels could add qualities to a tuner's ability that could not be there without those playing skills. I don't think those specific skills have been mentioned so far.

I think the other skills(more specifically regulating and voicing) besides tuning also need to be discussed in relation to anything that playing skill might add.

So I'd like to hear answers to the question:

What specific skills, if any, do you think a piano tech (at various levels of playing ability) have directly because of that playing ability that would not be possible for a tech without those playing skills to have?


Last edited by pianoloverus; 03/13/13 02:18 PM.
#2047840 - 03/13/13 07:33 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,577
Dave B Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Dave B  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,577
Philadelphia area
PL.. Can you repeat that question please?


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
#2047848 - 03/13/13 07:54 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Dave B]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2047851 - 03/13/13 07:57 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 373
Mark Purney Offline
Full Member
Mark Purney  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 373
Mesa, AZ
I believe that a technician doesn't need to be a pianist in order to do great work. Some of the best technicians can't play at all. I can't imagine regulating an action without being able to see, yet we all know about the incredible work being done by technicians who must do everything entirely by feel. They excel despite a handicap. But I have to say that being a pianist is a definite advantage, and I exploit that advantage in every possible way. I can put a piano through it's paces and evaluate its performance in ways that can't be achieved by a non-pianist. I've finished tuning a piano, and then sat down to play it afterward to discover things I didn't notice during the tuning. There are piano compositions that are very hard to play if a piano's action isn't regulated properly. I can determine things in a few seconds by playing that I can't imagine doing any other way. But it's only an advantage, and not something required to do my job.

#2047862 - 03/13/13 08:26 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark Purney]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,464
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Mark...  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,464
Jersey Shore
Originally Posted by Mark Purney
But I have to say that being a pianist is a definite advantage, and I exploit that advantage in every possible way. I can put a piano through it's paces and evaluate its performance in ways that can't be achieved by a non-pianist. I've finished tuning a piano, and then sat down to play it afterward to discover things I didn't notice during the tuning. There are piano compositions that are very hard to play if a piano's action isn't regulated properly. I can determine things in a few seconds by playing that I can't imagine doing any other way. But it's only an advantage, and not something required to do my job.


I wonder if that advantage makes a good tuning a great tuning.

To me I would think so...

#2047872 - 03/13/13 08:52 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Dave B]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,250
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,250
New York City
Originally Posted by Dave B
PL.. Can you repeat that question please?
Why? I think it's pretty clearly phrased as is.

#2047874 - 03/13/13 08:56 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,250
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,250
New York City
Originally Posted by Mark...
Originally Posted by Mark Purney
But I have to say that being a pianist is a definite advantage, and I exploit that advantage in every possible way. I can put a piano through it's paces and evaluate its performance in ways that can't be achieved by a non-pianist. I've finished tuning a piano, and then sat down to play it afterward to discover things I didn't notice during the tuning. There are piano compositions that are very hard to play if a piano's action isn't regulated properly. I can determine things in a few seconds by playing that I can't imagine doing any other way. But it's only an advantage, and not something required to do my job.


I wonder if that advantage makes a good tuning a great tuning.

To me I would think so...
It seems as thought Mark was talking mostly about regulation and not tuning.

That's one reason I said I think it makes sense to specifically discuss other aspects of tech work besides tuning. My guess is that evaluating the regulation might be the main area where techs who are excellent pianists may have some advantage but I'm not at all certain about this.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 03/13/13 08:59 PM.
#2047882 - 03/13/13 09:30 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Seattle, WA USA
Pianoloverus,
I think I mentioned in an earlier post that it is the speed with which you can evaluate an actions performance and the balance of tone that piano playing technique confers. The same thing as Mark Purney just said.

By the way Mr. Purney is a very skilled pianist. He can produce a wonderful tone and has a fluidic, virtuosic technique.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2047900 - 03/13/13 10:14 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
He can produce a wonderful tone and has a fluidic, virtuosic technique.

fluidic? My OED sent me in an obscure direction.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2047919 - 03/13/13 10:50 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Seattle, WA USA
Marty,
Given your off the wall reactions to some of my posts, maybe you often go in the wrong direction. Fluidic is a proper conjugate of the word fluid. It is an appropriate description of facile and dynamically controlled piano technique.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2047920 - 03/13/13 10:52 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Nope - A pianist has a fluid technique, not a fluidic technique.

Sorry, you're wrong. One does not conjugate an adjective.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2047934 - 03/13/13 11:14 PM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Seattle, WA USA
Minnesota Marty,
Fluidic works, you know what I meant and it is a word conjugate that fits the circumstances. There is no legal language authority in the English speaking world. All english writer/speakers are free to coin word forms and even grammatical variants. The final judge is-does it communicate accurately and effectively. We are no longer in school here. I make no pretense of being a highly skilled writer but sometimes I can turn a phrase or two. English dictionaries are always behind the times regarding language use.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2048111 - 03/14/13 09:44 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
There is no legal language authority in the English speaking world.
[Linked Image] It just goes to show that one can fluidically step in it at will!


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2048133 - 03/14/13 10:42 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,600
KurtZ Offline
1000 Post Club Member
KurtZ  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,600
The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty


Sorry, you're wrong. One does not conjugate an adjective.


You needn't be so pedantical. One who speaks so eruditiously hasn't any need to excel in pontificatiousness.

Have a great thursday!



One who does what the Friend wants done
will never need a friend.

Rumi
#2048137 - 03/14/13 10:51 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: KurtZ]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
KurtZ - Very Good!

[Linked Image]


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2048145 - 03/14/13 11:11 AM Re: Tuners who play vs tuners who don't [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,198
Seattle, WA USA
KurtZ,
Such a temporally brilliant pun! You must have just been elected some sort of Pope!
Now if Marty can just stow his mistrust. Maybe you can absolve him of his past sins and he will sin no more.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Question From a Student For Teachers
by 17curleyj. 05/26/17 04:36 PM
Teachers - Piece difficulty - When to move up?
by my58vw. 05/26/17 04:08 PM
How much low frequency power does a piano have?
by PianoMan51. 05/26/17 03:28 PM
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 - first impressions
by TheodorN. 05/26/17 02:25 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Report Problems With New Forums
Report Problems with New Forums Here!
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics179,899
Posts2,630,061
Members87,892
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0