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Hey everyone - I have some questions about how the damper pedal is supposed to work. I also posted in the technicians forum, but I would appreciate some input from piano players on this as well. Here is the other post (I hope this link works). Pedal Posting Here are some of my questions: 1) How high off of the ground is a pedal supposed to be when it is not depressed? What about when it is fully depressed? Do people prefer different pedal heights or often encounter different pedal heights? 2) How far should a pedal go down from its starting point before it stops and is completely depressed? My pedal has a range of motion of about two inches. I would think that it is difficult to pedal quickly when you have to move your foot up and down 2 full inches each time - I would think that less of a range would allow for quicker pedal changes. 3) I'm having trouble with my damper pedal because when I rest my foot on it, it depresses, so I have to hold my foot up with my leg and back muscles. I'm wondering if this is normal or if the tension on my pedal needs to be increased, or the pedal mechanism otherwise adjusted somehow. Thanks!
pianokeys135
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I'm not sure, but it seems like two inches is a huge range of motion for a pedal, and will be detrimental to good pedaling, as you suspect.
The fact that your pedal depresses when you rest your foot on it is a very bad sign. The pedal should require a substantial amount of pressure before depressing even a little. If you have to hold your foot up that way whenever you play/practice, you are likely to develop muscle cramps and other problems. I would see a qualified technician about it as soon as possible. I'm not one, so I couldn't tell you anything more specific even if I could see the piano in person. Insufficient tension in the mechanism that operates the pedal is likely the cause of the problem.
Regards,
Polyphonist
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What is the brand of the piano, what is its age, and what is its maintenance history?
Regards,
BruceD
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Estonia 190
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Thanks for the comments Polyphonist. I've stuck a piece of felt above the pedal, which has cut down the 2" range to about 1.5 inches. It still seems like too much distance to me, though, although I can rest my foot on it more easily now. I'm thinking of sticking something underneath it too. The first inch of the downward motion doesn't actually do much anyway. I'm trying to get someone in to look at it, but it usually takes some time to schedule an appt. with the person I use. What is the brand of the piano, what is its age, and what is its maintenance history? It's an upright W. Hoffmann - 50" tall. It's a few years old. As far as maintenance, I've had it tuned regularly (at least every 6 months or so) and had few minor mechanical and voicing adjustments done - Nothing too major yet. I also had a Dampp Chaser system installed.
pianokeys135
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[...] What is the brand of the piano, what is its age, and what is its maintenance history? It's an upright W. Hoffmann - 50" tall. It's a few years old. As far as maintenance, I've had it tuned regularly (at least every 6 months or so) and had few minor mechanical and voicing adjustments done - Nothing too major yet. I also had a Dampp Chaser system installed. Frequently on many uprights - and I can't speak for the W. Hoffman - the adjustment of effect of the travel distance of the damper pedal is as simple as turning the rod that connects the damper pedal arm to the damper bar.[1] The top of the rod has a screw thread and turning the rod one way or the other adjusts the travel of the dampers. [1] Taking the bottom front cover off the upright, you should see that the damper pedal has a long (usually wooden) arm that extends to the right from the damper pedal to the right side of the inside frame of the piano. At the end of that arm is a (brass?) rod that runs up to the bar that controls the dampers. Regards,
BruceD
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Estonia 190
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Thanks Bruce. The inside of my piano is similar to what you describe.
The long wooden bar runs to the left on my piano (Doesn't seem to matter which way it goes though). I was curious about tightening the nut on top of the wooden bar, but there is a nut on the bottom that's really hard to get to. Unfortunately, I don't have a ratchet that will work on it. I would just need to hold the bottom nut in place, and then I could tighten the top nut by hand. (I tried turning the top nut, but the bottom nut is just spinning around so nothing is accomplished.) I thought of going to pick up a ratchet. I'm not sure what the size of the nut on the bottom is. My guess is that it would be metric. I'm hoping my technician will call me tomorrow - Maybe he will be able to give me some guidance.
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I posted some pictures in the thread in the technicians forum (link in original post).
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I own a smaller Hoffman upright from the 1980s, and indeed the pedals are very high off the floor. About 3.5 inches, and the damper pedal travels about 2 inches. It's not my principal instrument, so this doesn't matter to me, but when I was using it regularly I put a small block of wood under my right foot, to raise my heel about an inch. That worked.
I love German pianos, but sometimes one still encounters bad design. My music rack is also poorly conceived: it's fine for a volume of Beethoven sonatas, but won't hold a piece of sheet music. Hmm.
Last edited by Peter K. Mose; 03/06/13 10:04 PM.
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That's funny. I have the hardest time with single pages. They are always falling when I'm in the middle of something. I'm planning at some point to buy or make an L-shaped music holder to put on top of the music stand so that it will hold single pages. Usually I just put a bound volume behind them to hold them in place. I think I'll have to figure out a way to alter how the pedals work, or else have a technician do a little customizing work. I've made some progress so far, but it's not perfect yet 
pianokeys135
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That's funny. I have the hardest time with single pages. They are always falling when I'm in the middle of something. I'm planning at some point to buy or make an L-shaped music holder to put on top of the music stand so that it will hold single pages. Usually I just put a bound volume behind them to hold them in place.
Have you considered putting them in a ring binder? That's what I do.
Regards,
Polyphonist
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A ring binder is an interesting idea. I like to work with the paper exposed because I like to write on it. Also, sometimes I want to work with single sheets when I'm writing something because I'm going back and forth to the computer and printing new versions. Do you put the sheets into those plastic sleeves with the ring holes, or just punch the holes into the paper? I also would like a long L-shaped board that can hold a number of pages so I don't have to flip pages all the time. I guess pages in a binder would be pretty easy to flip though...Thanks for the suggestion.
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Have you tried printing on card stock? I've had no problem keeping the music in place since doing this.
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A ring binder is an interesting idea. I like to work with the paper exposed because I like to write on it. Also, sometimes I want to work with single sheets when I'm writing something because I'm going back and forth to the computer and printing new versions. Do you put the sheets into those plastic sleeves with the ring holes, or just punch the holes into the paper? I also would like a long L-shaped board that can hold a number of pages so I don't have to flip pages all the time. I guess pages in a binder would be pretty easy to flip though...Thanks for the suggestion. No, you don't put the sheets into plastic sleeves, you just punch holes in the paper. It's very easy to write on the score. And I find that putting all the pages of a 3 or 4 page piece side by side and taping them together will be pretty stable.
Regards,
Polyphonist
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Thanks for the tips. Card stock is interesting. I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to pick up a binder, some card stock, and a three-hole puncher next time I'm out!
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[RANT Warning!] Slightly off topic, but the thread has veered in this direction : I do get mildly annoyed when I see/hear a performance where the performer is using the score (nothing against that; I often use the score in performance myself), but where that score is four, five or six pages photocopied or printed from the internet all spread out on the music desk. I've seen some "performers" spend a couple of minutes trying to get all their sheets lined up and not have quite enough room for the last one which keeps sliding off the desk. Then s/he has to spend another couple of minutes trying to overlap all the sheets enough so that they will all fit on the desk. At the point where a piece is ready for performance - which means, to me, that the performer probably knows - or should know - the piece pretty well - can't s/he have the sense to bring a decent score on stage? The performer does get dressed for the performance, then on he comes with a sheaf of these wilted, flimsy sheets, often tattered and dog-eared, fiddles with them and prepares to give a convincing, polished (?) performance! There is something to be said about all aspects of a polished performance being considered, isn't there, including aspects of stage presentation? More than that, bringing a decent score on stage is a consideration for the audience. I can't tell how many times in a situation such as this I have been figuratively on the edge of my seat wondering if that last page is going to stay on the desk or not throughout the performance, as it gently waves with the slightest current of air on stage. I'm more worried about the damn score than I am about listening to the performance. So, all you performers who work/study from printed and photo copied sheets, please bring a bound score on stage - and a page turner, if you need one - for your next performance. I thank you and your audience thanks you! [End of RANT; Off the soap-box, now] Regards,
BruceD
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Estonia 190
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[RANT Warning!] Slightly off topic, but the thread has veered in this direction : I do get mildly annoyed when I see/hear a performance where the performer is using the score (nothing against that; I often use the score in performance myself), but where that score is four, five or six pages photocopied or printed from the internet all spread out on the music desk. I've seen some "performers" spend a couple of minutes trying to get all their sheets lined up and not have quite enough room for the last one which keeps sliding off the desk. Then s/he has to spend another couple of minutes trying to overlap all the sheets enough so that they will all fit on the desk. At the point where a piece is ready for performance - which means, to me, that the performer probably knows - or should know - the piece pretty well - can't s/he have the sense to bring a decent score on stage? The performer does get dressed for the performance, then on he comes with a sheaf of these wilted, flimsy sheets, often tattered and dog-eared, fiddles with them and prepares to give a convincing, polished (?) performance! There is something to be said about all aspects of a polished performance being considered, isn't there, including aspects of stage presentation? More than that, bringing a decent score on stage is a consideration for the audience. I can't tell how many times in a situation such as this I have been figuratively on the edge of my seat wondering if that last page is going to stay on the desk or not throughout the performance, as it gently waves with the slightest current of air on stage. I'm more worried about the damn score than I am about listening to the performance. So, all you performers who work/study from printed and photo copied sheets, please bring a bound score on stage - and a page turner, if you need one - for your next performance. I thank you and your audience thanks you! [End of RANT; Off the soap-box, now] Regards, BruceD is possibly the one poster here whose posts I enjoy reading the most...
Regards,
Polyphonist
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[RANT Warning!] Slightly off topic, but the thread has veered in this direction : I do get mildly annoyed when I see/hear a performance where the performer is using the score (nothing against that; I often use the score in performance myself), but where that score is four, five or six pages photocopied or printed from the internet all spread out on the music desk. I've seen some "performers" spend a couple of minutes trying to get all their sheets lined up and not have quite enough room for the last one which keeps sliding off the desk. Then s/he has to spend another couple of minutes trying to overlap all the sheets enough so that they will all fit on the desk. At the point where a piece is ready for performance - which means, to me, that the performer probably knows - or should know - the piece pretty well - can't s/he have the sense to bring a decent score on stage? The performer does get dressed for the performance, then on he comes with a sheaf of these wilted, flimsy sheets, often tattered and dog-eared, fiddles with them and prepares to give a convincing, polished (?) performance! There is something to be said about all aspects of a polished performance being considered, isn't there, including aspects of stage presentation? More than that, bringing a decent score on stage is a consideration for the audience. I can't tell how many times in a situation such as this I have been figuratively on the edge of my seat wondering if that last page is going to stay on the desk or not throughout the performance, as it gently waves with the slightest current of air on stage. I'm more worried about the damn score than I am about listening to the performance. So, all you performers who work/study from printed and photo copied sheets, please bring a bound score on stage - and a page turner, if you need one - for your next performance. I thank you and your audience thanks you! [End of RANT; Off the soap-box, now] Regards, An easy fix is to just tape the pages into a 'single' piece of paper. No arranging. No mess. And if there's a couple of inches of paper left, it won't go anywhere.
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I'm enjoying the discussion about piano music, but I'd love to hear more from people about the pedal topic if anyone has any other thoughts. 
pianokeys135
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so I couldn't tell you anything more specific even if I could see the piano in person.
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I've recently noticed that on grand pianos, the pedals seem to be set a few inches farther back from the keyboard (I'm referring to the horizontal distance from where the white keys end to where the pedals are), which gives you a few extra inches of leg room on grands as compared to uprights. I've been sitting at grands lately and I find that the extra space makes sitting at a grand seem more comfortable to me than sitting at an upright.
Has anyone else ever noticed this?
pianokeys135
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