Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
53 registered members (Beemer, Ben_NZ, amad23, anais77, 8 invisible), 1,667 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2043330 - 03/05/13 12:45 PM Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 85
montunoman Offline
Full Member
montunoman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 85
I'm not much of a classical music buff but after hearing some of the special reports on Van Cliburn lately, I found I really enjoy his playing. I'd like to get some of his recordings on CD. Any recmendations? Maybe some solo works and some stuff that he did with orchestras would be a good start?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2043334 - 03/05/13 12:51 PM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: montunoman]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,384
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,384
New York
No surprise to those who've seen my posts on him: How about "My Favorite Chopin." I mean, it's one of my favorite albums!

#2043417 - 03/05/13 03:50 PM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: montunoman]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,709
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Hank Drake  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,709
Cleveland, Ohio
I certainly wouldn't want to be without the Tchaikovsky 1 and Rachmaninoff 3 Cliburn recorded upon his return from Russia. But there's much more, including a fine Brahms Handel Variations and Liszt Sonata, quite a bit of Chopin. There's also an all Rachmaninoff recording including my favorite performance of the original 1913 version of the Second Sonata. But at the low price his complete recordings are currently offered at, why not get them all:

http://www.amazon.com/Van-Cliburn-Complete-Album-Collection/dp/B009EJSUBY


Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell
#2043446 - 03/05/13 04:46 PM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: montunoman]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,405
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,405
Victoria, BC
29 CD's for less than $80.00 is quite a bargain, I would say.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2043451 - 03/05/13 05:13 PM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: montunoman]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,362
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,362
Pacific Northwest, US.
And scroll down a bit on Hank's link and you can read his fine review of the set!

By no means have I heard all of Cliburn's recordings, though the review has encouraged me to explore further. Would respectfully disagree, however, with Hank's assessment of Cliburn's Prokofiev 6th as ranking 'with the best'. The reading felt rather generalized and not always accurate, certainly no match for Richter or Ashkenazy, let alone later recordings of Pogorelich or Kissin.


Jason
#2043458 - 03/05/13 05:20 PM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: argerichfan]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,709
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Hank Drake  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,709
Cleveland, Ohio
Well...I'm actually not a fan of the Richter recording (at least the one released as part of Richter Rediscovered on RCA). To me, it just sounds bangy. While Prokofiev is definitely a more percussive composer, the composers' own recordings of his Concerto 3 and various solo works indicate he never played this way. The Pogorelich is outstanding in every respect - what a pity the way his career turned up. I've not heard Ashkenazy's recording, but if it's as generic as everything else I've heard from him...

It's a pity Argerich never recorded this work - that I know of.

Cliburn's rendition is certainly head and shoulders above the version Barbara Nissman recorded for Newport. It's a real snooze.

Last edited by Hank Drake; 03/05/13 05:21 PM.

Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell
#2043481 - 03/05/13 06:06 PM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: Hank Drake]  
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,618
Tim Adrianson Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Tim Adrianson  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,618
Along these same lines, I've always thought that Cliburn provided THE best reading of Samuel Barber's Piano Sonata, and that includes the Horowitz rendition. The reason is not so much relative technical proficiency as a sense of "style" -- Cliburn injects elements of warmth and humor into the musical framework that I find lacking in Horowitz. And this for me is a crucial factor in a successful presentation of this piece. I consider it poetically to be a "War Sonata" on a par with Prokofiev's magnificent efforts, and Cliburn gives me that sense of epic terror and despair, seen from an American point of view. More generally, I hear performances of the Barber presented more as a technical tour de force -- which indeed it is -- but, like the Prokofiev -- the poetry of the compositions is a much more important factor.

#2043506 - 03/05/13 07:19 PM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: montunoman]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 319
opus119 Offline
Full Member
opus119  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 319
Cliburn's recording of MacDowell's Second Piano Concerto and the Prokofiev Third Concerto is one of my favorites.


#2043646 - 03/06/13 12:08 AM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: montunoman]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,362
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,362
Pacific Northwest, US.
My local classical station just finished a broadcast of Cliburn's recording of Rachmaninov 3, which I gave my full attention to. Not really sure what to say -I had not heard that recording in some years- but often the sound was so clouded that it was difficult to really evaluate Cliburn's contributions.

Nevertheless, I was very much left with the feeling that it is simply no match for Horowitz's fusillade with Reiner (and in clearer sound to boot), even with the cuts which I have always hated. Unlike most people here, I prefer the shorter cadenza, maybe less impressive than the 'big one', but IMO it works better in context.

Whilst not the biggest fan of this rather over-written concerto -though I fully understand its attraction and raison d'ĂȘtre- even Argerich (for all her rushed moments) seems to be making better contact with the keys, if no match for Horowitz.

KING-FM programs Rachmaninov 3 on a very regular basis, usually with the latest hot-shot pianists. None of those recordings have ever particularly engaged me, let alone provided any temptation to purchase.


Jason
#2043650 - 03/06/13 12:24 AM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: argerichfan]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,140
Polyphonist Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,140
New York City
Originally Posted by argerichfan

My local classical station just finished a broadcast of Cliburn's recording of Rachmaninov 3, which I gave my full attention to. Not really sure what to say -I had not heard that recording in some years- but often the sound was so clouded that it was difficult to really evaluate Cliburn's contributions.

Nevertheless, I was very much left with the feeling that it is simply no match for Horowitz's fusillade with Reiner (and in clearer sound to boot), even with the cuts which I have always hated.
1) Unlike most people here, I prefer the shorter cadenza, maybe less impressive than the 'big one', but IMO it works better in context.

2) Whilst not the biggest fan of this rather over-written concerto

3) KING-FM programs Rachmaninov 3 on a very regular basis, usually with the latest hot-shot pianists. None of those recordings have ever particularly engaged me, let alone provided any temptation to purchase.


1) I also prefer the smaller cadenza.

2) I'm afraid I will have to disagree that it's overwritten. Would you mind pointing to a part of the piece you think is particularly overwritten? Use a rehearsal mark. I'm interested to see what you have to say since I've had this discussion with people before.

3) It's just a fact that most recordings of a given piece are bad, because there are more bad pianists than good pianists (I don't think anybody will dispute that).


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2043655 - 03/06/13 12:34 AM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: Tim Adrianson]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,710
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Orange Soda King  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,710
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted by Tim Adrianson
Along these same lines, I've always thought that Cliburn provided THE best reading of Samuel Barber's Piano Sonata, and that includes the Horowitz rendition. The reason is not so much relative technical proficiency as a sense of "style" -- Cliburn injects elements of warmth and humor into the musical framework that I find lacking in Horowitz. And this for me is a crucial factor in a successful presentation of this piece. I consider it poetically to be a "War Sonata" on a par with Prokofiev's magnificent efforts, and Cliburn gives me that sense of epic terror and despair, seen from an American point of view. More generally, I hear performances of the Barber presented more as a technical tour de force -- which indeed it is -- but, like the Prokofiev -- the poetry of the compositions is a much more important factor.


I 100% agree. I never cared for Barber's piano sonata until I heard Cliburn play it.

#2043687 - 03/06/13 01:49 AM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: argerichfan]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,384
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,384
New York
Originally Posted by argerichfan
....Whilst not the biggest fan of this rather over-written concerto....

Hoping not to offend our many Rachmaninoff fans -- but what the heck, I've offended some teachers of mine with this grin -- that's what I feel about Rachmaninoff overall. Even when it's terrific, which is usually, IMO there's too much.

And BTW, speaking of overwritten things, what's with the word "whilst"? ha
How is it different from while?

No need to answer, but I've just often wondered, and it fits with the "overwritten" theme. smile

#2043696 - 03/06/13 02:14 AM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: montunoman]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,710
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Orange Soda King  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,710
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
I've never really thought of anything - or, at least, anything halfway decent - to be overwritten. Even moments in Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Alkan, Saint-Saens, Busoni, Ravel, Prokofiev, etc. where there are tons and tons of notes, if it's actually decent music written by a great composer, that person really knew what he/she was doing with every single note.

Now, if you want to talk about Sorabji (whom I also enjoy listening to, especially his atmospheric-sounding works), I can see where there are just cascades of notes that seem to bombard me and I wonder exactly what his intent was... But I still like him. smile

Although in the end, I'm drawn more toward things such as Schubert, where there are often "no notes to hide behind" and the music making and demands for long line, good tone, and good phrasing are 100% transparent and evident.

#2043801 - 03/06/13 09:03 AM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: montunoman]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,264
bennevis Offline
9000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,264
I've never thought of Rach 3 to be 'over-written': it's in accord with the composer's full-blooded Romantic style in his middle period. And the big chordal cadenza is in perfect accord with the rest of the work, whereas the compact quicksilver one sounds like it has been transplanted from an off-cut from his Paganini Rhapsody, before an abrupt change of style when it joins up with the original cadenza. That change always sounds jarring to me. But if you like the Rach-Pag but not Rach 3, undoubtedly you'd prefer the short cadenza. Pianists like Stephen Hough who play Rach 3 in a fast and light manner also prefer it.

But I think it's significant that some great pianists have switched from the short cadenza to the big one as they matured, but no well-known pianist I know of has done the opposite. Among the pianists who switched are Vladimir Ashkenazy, Mikhail Pletnev and Barry Douglas: all past winners of the Tchaikovsky Competition.....

Van Cliburn's conception of Rach 3 is broad and almost monumental, like that of many of today's pianists including Evgeny Kissin. Rachmaninoff himself cited Horowitz and Gieseking as two of the best performers of this work, and they couldn't be more different in their approaches - which in turn are also different from the composer's own recording.

Back on the theme of 'over-writing', it seems to me that if music sounds think and opaque, that is a sign. And I have to say that Brahms's concertos (piano, violin and double) all sound 'thick' to me, and even the greatest pianists cannot make the textures in the piano concertos sound transparent, unlike in Rach 3, where no matter how fast and thick the notes come, you can still hear the 'air' between the notes, and the inner melodies within the textures.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
#2043846 - 03/06/13 10:45 AM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: Polyphonist]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,359
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,359
New York City
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
3) It's just a fact that most recordings of a given piece are bad, because there are more bad pianists than good pianists (I don't think anybody will dispute that).
I'd strongly dispute that.

My conception of the word "bad" would apply to a very small percent of those who record any given work...less than 10%. To me, to say there are "more bad pianists than good pianists" sound monumentally arrogant.

#2043854 - 03/06/13 11:13 AM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: Polyphonist]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member
landorrano  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572
France
Originally Posted by Polyphonist

3) It's just a fact that most recordings of a given piece are bad, because there are more bad pianists than good pianists (I don't think anybody will dispute that).


Polyphonist, welcome to the forum! Looking forward to reading what you have to say.

I can't say that I agree with the whole of your statement above but ... but I do agree that most recordings of a given piece are bad. I feel that recording just isn't the situation for really taking a close look either at a musician or at a piece of music.

#2044077 - 03/06/13 07:44 PM Re: Van Cliburn Recording Recomendations [Re: Polyphonist]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,618
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,618
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by argerichfan

My local classical station just finished a broadcast of Cliburn's recording of Rachmaninov 3, which I gave my full attention to. Not really sure what to say -I had not heard that recording in some years- but often the sound was so clouded that it was difficult to really evaluate Cliburn's contributions.

Nevertheless, I was very much left with the feeling that it is simply no match for Horowitz's fusillade with Reiner (and in clearer sound to boot), even with the cuts which I have always hated.
1) Unlike most people here, I prefer the shorter cadenza, maybe less impressive than the 'big one', but IMO it works better in context.

2) Whilst not the biggest fan of this rather over-written concerto

3) KING-FM programs Rachmaninov 3 on a very regular basis, usually with the latest hot-shot pianists. None of those recordings have ever particularly engaged me, let alone provided any temptation to purchase.


1) I also prefer the smaller cadenza.

2) I'm afraid I will have to disagree that it's overwritten. Would you mind pointing to a part of the piece you think is particularly overwritten? Use a rehearsal mark. I'm interested to see what you have to say since I've had this discussion with people before.

3) It's just a fact that most recordings of a given piece are bad, because there are more bad pianists than good pianists (I don't think anybody will dispute that).


While your third remark may be generally true, I don't think you will get a capable orchestra to make a recording with a bad pianist.


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Are there any Steingraeber & Sohne pianos in Australia?
by PerfectPianoSearch. 06/28/17 03:22 AM
Kawai or Yamaha for classical music?
by James Guo. 06/27/17 10:47 PM
I hope I'm still playing...
by Retsacnal. 06/27/17 10:02 PM
Playing Some (Not All) Movements of a Piece?
by ClsscLib. 06/27/17 08:13 PM
Should I give up piano lessons
by dat77. 06/27/17 08:10 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,495
Posts2,639,678
Members88,206
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0