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Hi,

I'm teaching my son to play piano. I'm not a professional teacher, and if that bothers you, please stop reading, as I don't want this to turn into a debate about whether or not I should be teaching my child to play piano.

My son is currently working through the Faber Piano adventures Primer book, and we're about half way through (Russian Folk Song).

There are a few things that I've noticed (patterns), and I am hoping for some good advice.

1) I've noticed the he prefers to play with flat fingers, and his palms below the keys. He sits high enough in a chair where he can comfortably keep his hands above the keys with rounded fingers, but he keeps playing with flat fingers on the edge of the keys. When I correct him on this, he will play with "proper" hand position for a few seconds, then regress back to flatness.

How much effort should I spend correcting this? Should I just halt everything until he gets the finger position right? Or should I just keep casually correcting him every now and then hoping it fixes itself? How important is this at such an early stage?

2) There's a lot of heavy arm movement. With each key he strikes, the elbow and arm are visibly moving quite a distance. While this helps with very succinct notes, it's visually very noisy. Should I be taking measures to have him play with a quieter wrist/arm? I find that when I do, he starts slurring the notes, and they begin to overlap each other sloppily. How important is this?

3) My son loves looking at his hands when he plays, but when he does, he makes musical mistakes. I find that he plays the best when:

a) I'm pointing at the notes with a pencil while he plays
b) I make him say the note names aloud when he plays

Ideally, I'd like him to be able to play without either of these crutches, but when I do, he starts watching his hands, and not the music, and makes note errors.

I'm currently giving him 45-minute lessons six days a week, and he's been going for three months now, and like I said, we're about 1/2 way through the first Piano Adventures series (doing the lesson, performance, popular repertoire, and gold star performance books). Is this progress too fast? Too slow? My current methodology is to not move on in a particular song until he can play it 3 times in a row by himself metrically even, and without any mistakes (including missed dynamics).

Any advice in general for someone in my situation? Please don't tell me to hire a professional teacher as that is financially not an option right now, and I'd rather him have lessons from me than no lessons at all. Thanks for any input!

Hi Mooseknuckle,

45 minute lessons six days a week seems like a lot for a 4-year old to handle. Is he enjoying his lessons?

Also, insisting on perfection with notes, rhythm and dynamics before progressing on to new music seems like a somewhat unrealistic expectation for a 4-year old unless he is unusually gifted.

What is the rush? I believe if you waited until he was six or seven he'd progress much faster and perhaps enjoy his lessons more.

1) I've noticed the he prefers to play with flat fingers, and his palms below the keys. He sits high enough in a chair where he can comfortably keep his hands above the keys with rounded fingers, but he keeps playing with flat fingers on the edge of the keys. When I correct him on this, he will play with "proper" hand position for a few seconds, then regress back to flatness.

From a developmental standard, he might not have the strength/muscle tone/coordination. He is very young. Without time off (one day is not enough), muscles don'e get the rest they need.

Vision tracking is also developmental. His eye strength to focus on music notes might not be able to track the notes for extended periods, his eyes get fatigued. You might want him to have an eye appointment after piano lessons with an pediatric opthamologist to test his tracking. If he is fatigued regularly he will need glasses to relieve the strain. It will cause headaches for him unchecked. You are tracking for him by using the pencil and when he memorizes the notes and says them aloud, he is not dependent on reading them.

The skills you are requiring are not developmentally appropriate for a 4 year old.

I agree with much of what's been said so far. It appears that Mooseknuckle's concerns are on target and that the lesson activities she describes are appropriate.

I do believe that after that many lessons for that many months, the student should be farther along in Primer, or that the Primer material has been learned to a very high degree of mastery. It seems that readiness may be a factor. Piano Adventures Primer was designed for the 6-7 year old in mind. A 4-year old's cognitive and motor development are unlikely to be up to the task of gaining a true understanding and mastery of the concepts presented in PA Primer. This is why the Fabers created the "My First Piano Adventures" series. That series targets the natural abilities and interests of the 4-6 year old student in a more appropriate and more engaging way. I would encourage Mooseknuckle to give that series a try and return to PA Primer in a year or two. (Or explore another series aimed at younger beginners - something like Music Moves for Piano.)

http://www.musicmovesforpiano.com

I agree with what's been said. Also, the Faber Piano Adventures is for children ages 7 or 8 I believe. If this were my student I would be doing My First Piano Adventures, which has a lot more focus on big musical concepts (high/low, loud/soft, fast/slow), singing, games, and very short songs.

I assume the 6 (45) minute lessons are really just practice sessions. If he enjoys it and can maintain his focus for that long, got for it. Otherwise, break it up by doing musical games, listening to music, singing along to music, improvising at the piano, etc. This part of his development has a lot to do with imagination and creativity. Why not treat this more as exploratory rather than product driven (learning the next song, finishing the book)?

To address your concerns about his playing, without actually seeing what he's doing it's hard to say definitively. So what I have to say next is based on the very limited information you've provided:

1) Flat finger playing is fine, keep reminding him, but don't make a big deal out of it
2) I assume you mean that his arms and wrist are bouncing and are pliable. Are his shoulders high? If they are relaxed, the bounciness if actually a good thing. However, I'm not sure if you mean with the elbow movement vertically or horizontally. Not know what this is could be a concern, but again, not a big deal. He's little and most likely trying his best to play without that slurring. By over doing the bounciness of the wrist this can help, especially since his fingers do not have much strength at this time.
3)Pointing while he plays is fine. Him memorizing and looking at his hands is also fine. The music is very simple and easy to memorize.

My 4-5 year old students enjoy the Faber series "My First Piano Adventures", books A, B, and C. They are very age-appropriate in my opinion and I agree with Kreisler that you could try using those first, then return to the purple primer book. Perhaps you wouldn't have to use all 3 early beginner books (the A, B, and C) before returning to the purple primer.

OK, I'm not allowed to say find a professional teacher. So I won't. But many piano teachers would be wrong for your son at age four anyway.

I'm probably not allowed to suggest that your son may be simply too young to be playing the piano, at least according to your regimen. So I won't.

What I will say is that I wish this lad were singing and dancing, with his parents, and his grandparents, and his cousins, and his aunts and uncles, and with other kids his age, instead of learning the piano. Give him a drum and a tonette first, and let him accompany your piano playing, not his.

Then find a music school that has a program such as MusikGarten, or KinderMusik, or Music Together, or Music for Young Children, or Orff, or Dalcroze, or one of the myriad nurturing music programs for children. You *can* afford these.

A couple years from now, with your son grounded in music, you can revisit the piano idea.

45 minute lessons, six days a week? REALLY? For a four year old?

You don't want us to debate whether or not you should be teaching your child, but you ask us "how to teach" questions which pretty much answers your question.

Hi MK, I've started teaching my daughter piano around age 4 also. She's 9 now is doing well... When I started teaching her, she had been in a early childhood music class since she was a baby for and she had just started Suzuki violin. I felt like we could not afford a piano teacher so I thought I'd try to teach her. I used many ideas/concepts that I observed at Suzuki and the early childhood music program. I tried my best to make our piano sessions FUN with an emhasis on AURAL skills rather than note reading and technique. I got into some books/note reading when she was around 5-6. I made a music staff with tape on the floor and she would step on certain notes. We'd do lots of fun ear training with that too. Sometime around kindergarten she told me she wanted to take lessons with a "real piano teacher" I asked what she ment by a "real paino teacher teacher" and she told me that she wanted an old lady teacher that gives lessons to other kids in her house. So I found a "real piano" and the lessons were kind of boaring for her after all the fun we had at home with our piano "lessons." So I continued teaching her using our games, ear training and some of the basic books from Faber, and Bastain. When she was 7 I felt like she ready for things that I couldn't give her (like recitals, competitions...) She now been with a very experianced traditional "old lady teacher" for 2 years now and she's doing very well. Looking back, I'm glad I started her off on piano and I honestly think she would have lost interest if I made her sit a at the piano for 45 minutes practice sessions with a book in front in front of her. But of course kids are different... Does your son seem to enjoy the time your spending with him?

This is completely ridiculous.

I guess everyone here has heard that Van Cliburn mother taught him as a small boy up until he went to Juliard. I wonder how she taught him when he was small?

As I recall, his mother, Rildia Bee O'Bryan, studied with Arthur Friedheim, who was a pupil of Franz Liszt, was a very advanced and accomplished pianist in her own right. And she was also a piano teacher!

What an intro!!

“I'm teaching my son to play piano. I'm not a professional teacher, and if that bothers you, please stop reading, as I don't want this to turn into a debate about whether or not I should be teaching my child to play piano.”
(Sounds like the dictatorial propoganda of the Nazis)

It is like a grim hangover from the Spanish Inquisition to torture a 4 year old at the piano for 45 minutes, 6 days a week ... and what is worse,
to discover that the persecutor is a rank amateur.

As a Piano Teacher of longstanding I’m totally with my colleague sonataplayer when he suggests ...

“What is the rush?
I believe if you waited until he was six or seven
he'd progress much faster and perhaps enjoy his lessons more.”

If only the Internet gave the power to rap Mooseknuckle
sharply over the knuckles ... I’d do it with zest.

A boy of 4 should be kicking a football ... or better still having his close family reading him magic stories at bedtime ... I was lucky to have a father who read us Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn ... while sitting round a winter fire.

Boy's of 4 might not be able to read and write ...
but crickey, they can dream.

Yes, I realize that. I'm pretty sure she started him off around 3 years old. I'd just be interested to know what she did with him at such a young age. 45 minute sessions with a book? Probably not...

Yes, and I'm guessing we are not comparing apples to apples here. The OP obviously isn't a piano teacher or they wouldn't be asking these questions. We don't know of their abilities at playing piano, but I think from what they've posted it's fair to assume they know how to play some piano.

I think the key for MK here is to concentrate more on music-making and creativity with music games, singing, dancing, etc. rather than a strict regimin at the piano at this stage in the child's development.

The story never ends ... all those cloth-eared parents
who believe they have sired a Mozart.

Give us a break ... the van Cliburns are one in a million ... or perhaps a zillion.

Also very true, btb. The vast majority of children who learn piano are not talented enough to have a career, and therefore there is no need to rush things. However, even if this child *is* the next Van Cliburn a strict approach like this might squelch his creativity. So it's important I think to know if this child is enjoying his lessons.

Van Cliburn's early training was quite strict. And came from his mother.

Poor fellow. Think of the baggage in later life. He could have started with folk dancing and Kodaly singing.

Peter, VC got some serious baggage! Met him at Interlochen back in '63 at an after concert party. He seemed to have "issues" even then.