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#2041873 - 03/02/13 03:12 PM Kurzweil ??  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 225
EmptySpace Offline
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EmptySpace  Offline
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Ohio
Hello friends. I need a little help:

I'm moving from a house to an apartment. As a result, I have to get rid of a Hobart M. Cable 52" upright and want to replace it with a dp with as realistic a feel as possible. I had settled on a kawai mp6.

I called my local piano dealer to discuss a trade-in. I know I'll take a bath but it may be the cleanest and quickest option. He handles kawai but didn't have an MP6 (and didn't know anything about it). He suggested the following options (in order by his assessment of realistic feel):

Roland DP90 (Probably out of my range)
Roland FP-7 (Same)
Kurzweil MP10
Kurzweil MPS20
Roland FP-4

Realistically, it will be the FP-4 or one of the Kurzweil options. I know the FP-4 is generally well regarded but know nothing about Kurzweil.

Any suggestions or advice?


I'm a masochist. I play the piano for pleasure.
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#2041931 - 03/02/13 05:28 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
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RBMusik Offline
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My thoughts:
1. Avoid trading at all costs
2. Find a trusted home for your piano while you move
3. Sell the piano yourself
4. Be suspect of someone who "handles Kawai" but is unfamiliar with their complete line (never heard of it??)
5. Roland or Kawai are excellent choices

I own the MP6 and love it. I played a brand new Steinway O today. It made me appreciate Kawai's effort on their action even more. It's a slightly firm (maybe heavier) action than a conservatory class Steinway, but pretty darn world class for the money. It's pretty dead-on action to a concert Kawai.



RB
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#2042333 - 03/03/13 02:05 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
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I'm employed by Kurzweil, so understand I may be 'biased'.

That being stated, I think both Kurzweil models should be legitimate contenders for you. The MP10 is a good solution if you're looking for a 'traditional' look in a home. The MPS20 is a 'stage' model - better for portability. Both pianos feature sounds from Kurzweil's PC3 sound chip - really fantastic quality piano & acoustic instrument sounds.

I wonder if, in your situation you can sell the Hobart acoustic directly via Craigslist rather than "take a bath" by trading in? It sounds like you may be in a rush, so I'm not sure if that's possible.

In any case, I truly believe the Kurzweil is a legitimate option for you.

Kind regards,


- Gary Girouard
Consultant for Viscount ("Physis" Physical-model piano; http://www.physispiano.com)
Pianist/Composer of "The Naked Piano" series (Free Music Samples http://www.garygirouardmusic.com)
Teacher, Entrepreneur...Parent
#2042406 - 03/03/13 05:04 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
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JFP Offline
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Try another dealer. If he can't provide you with the DP of your choice , or is not able to let you at least test drive the instruments you're really interested in. If all you can can buy or try is only what he (!) has in stock , than you're limiting yourself in choice and may regret it. I'm not making a judgement here about which model is better for you or not, but simply want to state that your choice you're being presented is limited and you should explore more options. Don't limit yourself , of let someone push you in a certain direction just because that's the stock he/she's got and tells you to take it or leave it.

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#2042408 - 03/03/13 05:09 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
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JFP Offline
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@pianoxcape ; bit off-topic , but since you're a Kurz insider anyway - any idea when the SP5-8 will hit the shelves in Europe ?? Haven't seen any announcements yet. Wondered when I could test-drive one , since I've never tried the non-FATAR action and it's currently the only stage piano with internal sounds, controls and aftertouch , so it might be interesting. Unless it comes here at workstation prices - because then there is more to choose from with sound/ 88 key / aftertouch even from Kurzweil itself...

#2042825 - 03/04/13 01:18 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
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EmptySpace Offline
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Ohio
Thanks for the input. I am bothered by the fact that a Kawai dealer hasn't heard of the MP-6. He actually suggested that it must be discontinued because he's never heard of it.

Avoid trade because I will lose my butt, right? I do have a suitable temporary home set up for the upright but there is an interim move involved that will set me back some $$ (don't want to throw her in the back of my pickup and drive the 20+ miles). So I'm thinking what I lose in trade I'll make up less hassle, moving costs.

So I'm willing to go backwards a little. I have no idea what the piano is worth, but I'm asking $1950 on CL and hoping to make a deal for around the price of the MP-6 ($1,500). Looking at CL, pianos don't move fast in my market, and most are free or sub-500 you-moves.


I'm a masochist. I play the piano for pleasure.
#2042841 - 03/04/13 02:00 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
Joined: Sep 2011
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toddy Offline
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Portugal
Originally Posted by EmptySpace
Thanks for the input. I am bothered by the fact that a Kawai dealer hasn't heard of the MP-6.


This is a very legitimate reason for being bothered. It's like a NASA guy never having heard of the Apollo Missions....or the Space Shuttle, even.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2042901 - 03/04/13 03:55 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: toddy]  
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I've done a little more digging around. On Kawai's website they distinguish between 'Acoustic and Digital Piano Dealers' and 'Professional Products Dealers.'

I'm guessing my guy is the former only. Seems like a bit of a strange distinction to me.

-Matt


I'm a masochist. I play the piano for pleasure.
#2042913 - 03/04/13 04:27 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
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toddy Offline
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Portugal
Mmm. Curious. James will know. Kawai James.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2042942 - 03/04/13 05:35 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
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RBMusik Offline
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Philadelphia
Regardless, if you can google up Kawai's line, so could a mildly motivated dealer. A salesman not knowing the product line is a sure sign they're careless or clueless. Either way, you shouldn't deal with them unless you can use their idiocy to your advantage.


RB
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#2042953 - 03/04/13 06:04 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
Joined: Dec 2012
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Charles Cohen Online content
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Charles Cohen  Online Content
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Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by EmptySpace
I've done a little more digging around. On Kawai's website they distinguish between 'Acoustic and Digital Piano Dealers' and 'Professional Products Dealers.'

I'm guessing my guy is the former only. Seems like a bit of a strange distinction to me.

-Matt


Casio is making the same distinction (roughly) with the PX-850. I believe that it's only available at "piano dealers", not through non-piano music stores (online or brick-and-mortar).

Yes, it's a marketing "distinction" without any technical difference. But it may be grounded in a real fact (if it's a fact):

. . . Few people say:
. . . . . "Should I buy a synth/workstation or a digi piano?"

Those on this Forum are the exception, not the rule.

. Charles

Last edited by Charles Cohen; 03/04/13 06:06 PM.

. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2042992 - 03/04/13 07:45 PM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,250
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted by EmptySpace
I've done a little more digging around. On Kawai's website they distinguish between 'Acoustic and Digital Piano Dealers' and 'Professional Products Dealers.'

I'm guessing my guy is the former only. Seems like a bit of a strange distinction to me.


As you correctly note, Kawai America markets the MP10, MP6, EP3, and CE220 models as part of its 'Professional' line up, offering these models to large musical instrument chain stores and internet retailers. The more traditional DP models such as the CN, CA, CP, and CL ranges are typically available only from Kawai dealers. One exception is the ES7, which is available from both dealers and online stores such as Sweetwater/Kraft.

Note that Kawai dealers are still able to stock the 'Professional' line models if they wish.

I hope this helps to clarify the situation.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2043242 - 03/05/13 09:21 AM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: Kawai James]  
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Ohio
Thanks for the clarifications, KJ.

Turns out that his lack of knowledge re. the MP6 isn't the dealbreaker here; the dealbreaker is the fact that I'll only net about $699 for my old piano in the transaction (purchased from him for $3,300 in '05).

Don't get me wrong -- I respect that he has to make a profit, and my used piano isn't worth a fortune, but I feel like I could do a little (lot) better on cl. Plus, I liked the Kurzweil units ok when I tried them in his shop last night, but they didn't set me on fire.

I live an hour away from Sweetwater's showroom, so I might dash out there if they have an MP6 on hand and try it out.

Thanks again for all your help folks!


Last edited by EmptySpace; 03/05/13 09:25 AM.

I'm a masochist. I play the piano for pleasure.
#2043271 - 03/05/13 10:28 AM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: EmptySpace]  
Joined: Apr 2009
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dmd Offline
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Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by EmptySpace
I live an hour away from Sweetwater's showroom, so I might dash out there if they have an MP6 on hand and try it out.

Thanks again for all your help folks!



I would take a moment and try the Kawai ES7.

One of their latest products. Very nice sound and feel.



Don

Current: ES8, ProFX8 Mixer, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur
#2043302 - 03/05/13 11:35 AM Re: Kurzweil ?? [Re: dmd]  
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EmptySpace Offline
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Ohio
Thanks dmd; I'll dig around the forums a little to see distinguishes ES7 from mp6.

My main concern is getting the best action I can in the price range.


I'm a masochist. I play the piano for pleasure.

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