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#2041728 - 03/02/13 06:52 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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JFP Offline
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Let me chew on it.

By the way - if they ever decide to adapt the ES7 translucent stand for other products:

1) check the angle of the stand. I think the way it fits on the ES is nice, but it could be a more upright (bends just a bit too much backward for comfortable reading). Minor detail - but if they adjust the legs anyway - it's easy to change that too.

3) Putting a music stand in the middle of the piano , like on your GIF is not a good idea. The great thing about the VPC is the room you have on the surface to put extra controls , or an extra (flat) keyboard on it. Therefore the current position is the right one IMHO, although a bit farther away than ideal.

3) If (bigger if and only just in case) the whole stand gets redesigned it could also be a bit higher - making it easier to put loose sheets on it , without having them bending backwards over de top of the music stand. Loose sheets have no solidity of themselves , so they need as much support as they can get. Of course you can put a plate , or book behind them, but nevertheless. Better have it all perfect in one run and be done with it.

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#2041731 - 03/02/13 07:04 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: mabraman]  
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Originally Posted by mabraman
Come on, it's just two more inches of wire and a couple of holes. Old pianos already had it.

[Linked Image]


My CA63 has these holders (now I fitted them).

[Linked Image]

#2041735 - 03/02/13 07:25 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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Similar holders are standard factory built-in on my Roland HP-307.
They make up for the fact that there is no ledge at the front edge of the music desk like on the Kawai RX-2.

#2041739 - 03/02/13 07:49 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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The Kawai DPs do have a small ledge at the front, but it can't cope with a big book which wants to shut itself all the time.

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#2041759 - 03/02/13 09:37 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

I've already sent an email to my work email address, reminding me to raise this topic with the VPC team/R&D.


Please don't forget to mention the requests for a decent PIANO stand (was amply repeated here above and in other topics too).

VPC is the most stylish beast of his kind, it would be a pity for this project to leave the product as torso.

You have referred to the "other part" of ourselves (men) was aimed with this stylish noble design - but a stylish stand a la ES7 would be the first thing to satisfy her. (What about ladies here among us? blush) Or are Your R%D planning a stand with cabinet features a la Physis stand with boxes too? Or for a solution for fixable/removable pedal unit?)

ES7 had it from the very first appearance, hadn't it?

It will be just interesting to see how long will it take to bring such supplements to the market from decision? 1 Month, 3 Month?

#2041764 - 03/02/13 10:00 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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My Clav's music stand can't compare to the one on my old Kawai US-50. Here's a video I found on You Tube.

[Linked Image]

#2041798 - 03/02/13 11:34 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Yes, it's clear that for some folks posting in this topic, the music rest is very important.
However, as I pointed out in my response to whitfit, not everyone shares this opinion, moreover, not everyone would be willing to pay extra for a large music rest that they may never use.

And besides that, for those who would be willing to pay extra, you have provided a number of possible solutions.

#2041817 - 03/02/13 12:28 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Originally Posted by gvfarns
...my MP8 has this same music rest and I don't find it good for loose sheets, which I seem to use often...


More latent market demand...

Originally Posted by whitfit
I own an MP10. It is a great keyboard.

The music rest sucks.

James, I really appreciate the feedback that you give, and your responsiveness here, but I don't really understand why you are so critical of those who recognize that the MP10/VPC is not a good music rest.

I agree that other professional stage keyboards have poor or no music rests. That is not an excuse for the MP10/VPC music rest.

For me, I have some larger score books that I copy pages out of so I don't have to lug the full score book around. Those sheets curl up and don't sit properly in the MP10 rest. If I put score books or other thinner music books on the stand, you can't get much on there before they fall over, or start to curl forward.

The music rest could be significantly improved. I would pay more for a good music rest that fits the keyboard mounts. I have my MP10 against a wall, so a big music stand behind the keyboard would be a big pain.

Not everything is perfect, and I wouldn't trade my MP10 for any other stage piano. But, don't be afraid of thinking that the music rest could be improved.


More latent market demand.
Originally Posted by fizikisto
For some of us, a good music rest is an essential part of our piano playing process. I think you can see that this issue of music rests inspires quite a bit of passion for some of us. That's probably because so many manufacturers of DP's include such terrible music rests (if they have any available at all). It's very frustrating. Part of the reason why it is so frustrating is that it would be such an easy thing to remedy.
...

Now I'm glad that the VPC-1 has a music rest, and it might even be adequate. ... I remain very interested in the VPC-1.... if I do pull the trigger and get one this summer, and if kawai puts out an optional "improved" music rest, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

And more...
Well said BTW.

Originally Posted by Kawai James
After market accessories such as a 'deluxe' music rest, pitchbend/modulation wheel add-on, or furniture stand are all worthwhile suggestions. However, as with any industry, proven demand must exist before development can be considered.


It is certainly an interesting approach to marketing.

First we build something that doesn't meet market needs and when it doesn't sell then we can point to the lack of sales as a reason not to develop products that meet market needs.

Could this one elementary difference in philosophy explain the huge difference in size, success and market coverage between Yamaha and Kawai?


+100!!! I couldn't agree more....

K.


Kevin L. Spindler
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#2041878 - 03/02/13 03:23 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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It's strange, I read all the comments and I wonder if I am the only one to find it wonderful to have room in front of the music stand to put a computer keyboard. If I order the VPC1, it will be in front of my computer because I also use electronic music sheets and it will most certainly be wonderful to have both option (paper and electronic) accessible while still keeping the computer keyboard (and mouse) accessible. While I agree that it would be handy to be able to put a four sheet wide partition on it (like on a "real" piano), I haven't seen many stage piano with that kind of stand.


- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc
#2041883 - 03/02/13 03:29 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Jean-Luc]  
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Originally Posted by Jean-Luc
I haven't seen many stage piano with that kind of stand.


The VPC-1 is not a stage piano but a virtual piano controller from a real piano company....

#2041900 - 03/02/13 04:12 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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Well, for all intent and purpose, the VPC1 is master keyboard and as such can be seen as both, a "home" piano and a stage piano due to it's format (Objectively, in it's presentation, the VPC is more similar to the MP10 than the C95)


- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc
#2041912 - 03/02/13 04:47 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: JFP]  
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Originally Posted by JFP
3) Putting a music stand in the middle of the piano , like on your GIF is not a good idea. The great thing about the VPC is the room you have on the surface to put extra controls , or an extra (flat) keyboard on it. Therefore the current position is the right one IMHO, although a bit farther away than ideal.


@ Jean-Luc ; read my earlier post. No intention to push for a middle / front stand. Position is right, type and build not.

Last edited by JFP; 03/02/13 04:47 PM.
#2041917 - 03/02/13 04:59 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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Perhaps this is KAWAI's official solution:

New KAWAI CA-15

[Linked Image]


Acoustic: own clavichord!, Burger&Jacoby,Biel (nice vintage vertical)
Digital: CA65; Pianoteq; Sampled:Galaxy VintageD+Vienna(Bösendorfer)
Sampletekk Black,PMI, etc...
Harpsi: Beurmann Dutch+Sampletekk, Clavichord:PMI+Wavelore+organs
#2042001 - 03/02/13 07:49 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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Since this thread is accumulating a number of data points for user preferences on music rests for the VPC-1, I'd like to add mine (without wishing to pile on Kawai James in any way):

I would also wish for a larger and more robust music rest (a la the ES7's) for the VPC-1. I find myself needing to prop up everything from bound manuscript to handwritten lead sheets to loose SheetMusicPlus printouts to iPads. The MP-10 music rest doesn't reach the level of quality and functionality which the VPC-1 otherwise embodies, IMHO.

It would be fine with me if an improved music rest were an extra-cost option. I remember buying a surprisingly expensive optional music rest for a Kurzweil keyboard I owned a while ago--I didn't flinch at the price because it was such a great convenience.

By coincidence, I sold my trusty old Roland HP207 today, and I'm looking forward to auditioning the VPC-1.


#2042186 - 03/03/13 07:43 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: TrumpetMan]  
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Originally Posted by TrumpetMan
Originally Posted by mabraman
Come on, it's just two more inches of wire and a couple of holes. Old pianos already had it.

[Linked Image]


My CA63 has these holders (now I fitted them).

[Linked Image]


Here you are, Kawaiers, it's already done! Just make it detachable and reclining backwards, and sell it as an accesory. Be shure to overprice it in order to keep Kawai's admin. council members fortune increasing.
Meanwhile, I'll memorize all the DP brands and models that don't offer rests at all.
Sincerely yours,

A CUSTOMER.


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
#2042869 - 03/04/13 02:53 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: slowtraveler]  
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Are y`all ready for the Vulgar Solution?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/90596869@N06/8529127520/

Last edited by peterws; 03/04/13 04:10 PM.

"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
#2042890 - 03/04/13 03:33 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: peterws]  
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Originally Posted by peterws
Are y`all ready for the Vulgar Solution?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/90596869@N06/8529127520/in/photostream


Brilliant solution! Did you make this yourself?

Cheers,

K.


Kevin L. Spindler
Early Keyboard Instruments
Stonington, CT
Harpsichords & Clavichords
Custom Instruments Built to Order
Rebuilding, Repair & Restoration
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#2042896 - 03/04/13 03:42 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: KLSinCT]  
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How on earth did ya see it? I thought it was a one click shot. Hope this is

http://flic.kr/p/dZG1sL

HOORRAYYYYY!!!!!!! I`ve achieved something today!! The short link on Fickr actually works!!

Last edited by peterws; 03/04/13 04:17 PM.

"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
#2044203 - 03/06/13 11:37 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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The VPC1 looks really interesting. I like that it has no wheels, so it isn't any wider than it needs to be. I wonder if it will fit in the cabinet I made for my Casio PX-120. Have they published the exact dimensions anywhere?


Jack
#2044204 - 03/06/13 11:43 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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joflah, please try here:

http://www.kawaivpc.com/specifications

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2044205 - 03/06/13 11:44 PM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]  
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Thanks, James.


Jack
#2044232 - 03/07/13 12:17 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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Well, unfortunately, it's 2 inches too wide. But if those side caps can come off without breaking anything, it should fit. Now, I wonder if anyone actually has one in stock?
BTW, the figure for depth, 42.5 cm, is incorrectly converted to inches as 17 3/4". It should be 16.73".



Jack
#2044243 - 03/07/13 12:28 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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joflah, the side panels can be removed, however I wouldn't recommend doing so because they're need to hold the VPC1 together.

Originally Posted by joflah
BTW, the figure for depth, 42.5 cm, is incorrectly converted to inches as 17 3/4". It should be 16.73".


Ah, well spotted, thank you!
I fixed the error.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2044916 - 03/08/13 06:55 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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I agree that the music rack of the MP10 doesn't fit MY personal needs. But I wasn't excpecting much more on a stage DP. My previous one simply didn't have any!
On the other hand, I didn't chose my DP on this particular spec (I rather concentrated on sound and keyboard feel). But that's ok, there are solutions.
How about that?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Byad-kOz7gKgXzBSN1RTSzRqZTg/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Byad-kOz7gKgSzZmMFg1R1c0VEE/edit?usp=sharing

http://www.woodbrass.com/librairie%2C-papeterie%2C-dvd...-pupitre-rtx-pupitre-puvx-orchestre-
p20195.html

#2069022 - 04/23/13 12:47 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Originally Posted by rnaple
Originally Posted by theJourney
...Since you admit that you cannot be of help to us, why not let others respond to the thread who might be able to address the question posed with their own ideas or proposed solutions.


If you're worried about a good music stand. Why not buy one? Put it behind the keyboard? Problem solved.

I'm looking forward to buying the VPC. I want a keyboard. Not a music stand.

Sometimes, people sound like they expect a keyboard to be a transformer. Transforms into this and that and...in the end they got a kid's toy.
No hillbilly solution. Easy solution. I want a music stand. I buy one.

Oh gee....I'm paying all this money and I want.... You want to whine!


Thanks for your suggestion.

I expect the Kawai VPC-1 to fulfill the function it is advertised: " A virtual (software) controller from a real piano company". Real piano companies deliver usable music stands that hold paper properly and with industry standard distances to the back of the keys c.q. to the player's eyes.

Placing a stand behind the keyboard becomes even more of a problem than mounted on the back of the keyboard....

The distance from the back of the keys to the base of the music stand on my Kawai RX-2 is adjustable from negative to about 13 centimeters and on my Roland HP-307 is about 10 centimeters.

Placing as you suggested a (standing?) floor music stand (assume an orchestra director version for required width?) behind the VPC-1 would mean a distance of greater than 30 centimeters). That is three times the distance and completely off the scale for a piano and becomes unusable for someone with reading glasses, bifocals or even normal eyes. It is a good thing the newer, deeper keyboard is not on board or you might need binoculars to see the music! smile


Dear Friends, music rest is not an important issue for this device, it can be solved with some other ways. There is a more serious problem for me, which is about triple pedal! I expect from Kawai to built a more solid triple pedal for this device. I understand that it does not have its dedicated stand, so it is impossible to fix the pedal assembly to somewhere and that's why the pedal assembly have to be very solid unit, i.e thick/heavy, but as far as I can see, it is very similar to F20 2 pedal unit and I am sure it will move around when you use it! The pedals have very low height from their base,floor, impossible to replicate real piano foot actions. I was expecting something more solid like Roland's triple pedal for RD700NX. I hope Kawai will remedy this failure with new MP series... For a serious piano playing, that is essential, music rest is a less serious issue...
Cheers!

Last edited by AtlantisHero; 04/23/13 12:53 AM.
#2069060 - 04/23/13 01:51 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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Kawai James Online content
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AtlantisHero, thank you for your post.

To clarify, your issue with the F-30 pedal unit is that:

- it may move around on the floor
- the height of the pedals is too low (?)

Here are the two pedal units, for reference:

Kawai F-30:

[Linked Image]

Roland RPU-3:

[Linked Image]

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2069098 - 04/23/13 03:35 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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Seems pretty solid to me ?! @AtlantisHero ; have you tried it ?

Personally I like the idea of NOT having a fixed position of the pedals (fixed in cabinet / stand); if it's ergonomically not in the right place for you , than you can move it to a position where you find it more pleasant to use. E.g. the three pedal set on my ES7 was a bit to close to the front for my own taste and I would have loved to be able to position it backward a bit. With the VPC1 set you can do exactly that.

Please let us know if you tried the F-30 or know anyone who has and what the experience was (perfectly OK, too light / too low ?); I'm curious.

(Should have known the answer myself by now, but...; sorry James ;-)

#2069177 - 04/23/13 08:08 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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The pedals are solid and fine, not too low. They don't move easily on most floors. If you ask me.

#2069182 - 04/23/13 08:14 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: theJourney]  
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When I first got my F-20 2-pedal unit it used to move around on the hardwood floor where I was at the time. I got some non-slip shelf liner and put it underneath and it hasn't bothered me since. You might try the same thing or something similar. You can also place something behind it (phonebook?). Generally in my experience when a pedal moves it moves away from you.

#2069286 - 04/23/13 11:41 AM Re: Solution for Music Desk on Kawai VPC-1 [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
AtlantisHero, thank you for your post.

To clarify, your issue with the F-30 pedal unit is that:

- it may move around on the floor
- the height of the pedals is too low (?)

Here are the two pedal units, for reference:

Kawai F-30:

[Linked Image]

Roland RPU-3:

[Linked Image]

Kind regards,
James
x

Hello James, let me tell you one thing firstly, you are great smile I have never seen a company presentative who is in love chatting and sharing their opinions with the customer... Well done!

One of my friends has Kawai MP10 and his F20 pedal set is dancing on the hard floor. I have not seen VPC-1 and F30 pedal set yet but as far as I can see the construction of it very similar with F20. It may not move as much as F20 but I am sure it has a tendency to do so...

I am sure you have played acustic pianos as well as digital piano models with furniture and their pedal location from the ground is quite high. We are talking about replicating the real piano so I think the pedals should look more sturdy. Yes, as I said, I have not tried them yet, but I would be really glad if I get some feedback from someone about this issue.
I do not know but Roland's triple pedal set looks more elegant and purposeful... Thank you for your kindness anyway smile

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