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Learn to play by ear then there is no need for the stand.

Both made and sold by Kawai. When your 'ear' fails you and the iPad battery is drained - which one would you prefer considering thick books , multiple sheets and 3-on a row. Really my last post on this subject, sorry to bore you all...

(Translucent one should tilt a little more upward , but no time do do extra photoshopping)

I don't know exactly how it is going to go. But...
My intuition tells me with the VPC, that it is going this direction.
The very first thing I expect to see is a Kawai Software Piano. Ivory? Whoever?

I don't know why people have problems going on stage with a Mac? PC I can understand...forget it.

Oh yes.... We need your votes to get James and the development team to finish the Godzilla Metronome. Not only will it look like he's hitting two sticks together. Really won't. Too expensive. He will have an adjustable tail that wags back and forth. Just like an old fashioned metronome!

Out of all the mock-up stands that are posted, the original wire one still looks the best and I don't even like the wire one too much.

I own an MP10. It is a great keyboard.

The music rest sucks.

James, I really appreciate the feedback that you give, and your responsiveness here, but I don't really understand why you are so critical of those who recognize that the MP10/VPC is not a good music rest.

I agree that other professional stage keyboards have poor or no music rests. That is not an excuse for the MP10/VPC music rest.

For me, I have some larger score books that I copy pages out of so I don't have to lug the full score book around. Those sheets curl up and don't sit properly in the MP10 rest. If I put score books or other thinner music books on the stand, you can't get much on there before they fall over, or start to curl forward.

The music rest could be significantly improved. I would pay more for a good music rest that fits the keyboard mounts. I have my MP10 against a wall, so a big music stand behind the keyboard would be a big pain.

Not everything is perfect, and I wouldn't trade my MP10 for any other stage piano. But, don't be afraid of thinking that the music rest could be improved.

Whitfit
Very well said, +1!

And James,
I am among those who are grateful for the time you take and the knowledge you share here on this forum. For some of us, a good music rest is an essential part of our piano playing process. I think you can see that this issue of music rests inspires quite a bit of passion for some of us. That's probably because so many manufacturers of DP's include such terrible music rests (if they have any available at all). It's very frustrating. Part of the reason why it is so frustrating is that it would be such an easy thing to remedy.

You're a Nord Owner. So you're probably familiar with the music rest they offer. The Nord's music rest is a best in class product (large, sturdy, not too heavy, well designed). It's also crazy expensive, but I was happy to shut up and give them my money for it. Maybe I'm spoiled by it, but I really just can't understand why so many other manufacturers ignore that segment of the market place.

I posted on one of the other threads that the Casio PX5S was very interesting to me but that the lack of a sheet music rest was a deal breaker for me. Some people probably think i'm crazy for that, but I just don't see why I should have to compromise on something that's important to me in an instrument, no matter how trivial it might seem to others.

Now I'm glad that the VPC-1 has a music rest, and it might even be adequate. But for a flagship product like the VPC-1, merely adequate is not something to aspire for. Nonetheless, I recognize EVERY product will of course make compromises. And as you point out the VPC-1 does have a music rest. I remain very interested in the VPC-1. I'm thinking seriously about saving up to get one this summer. Despite the fact that I wish that one aspect of the product were improved, I really hope that kawai has a massive hit on their hands with the VPC1. I can tell you this though, if I do pull the trigger and get one this summer, and kawai puts out an optional "improved" music rest, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Warm Regards

Check out Adapt-A-Stand for keyboards. It looks like it can improve the wire stand and also make it much bigger.

More latent market demand...



More latent market demand.

And more...
Well said BTW.



It is certainly an interesting approach to marketing.

First we build something that doesn't meet market needs and when it doesn't sell then we can point to the lack of sales as a reason not to develop products that meet market needs.

Could this one elementary difference in philosophy explain the huge difference in size, success and market coverage between Yamaha and Kawai?

Interesting that your pictures show the music desk where it belongs at the back of the keys rather than at the back of the (Kawai RM3 deep) keyboard on the VPC-1.

Solidity, angle, capacity and width are important.

However, positioning, depth and distance to eyes are also important.

A piece of clip on wire that is attached to the back of an historically deep keyboard rather than configured to the real-world piano playing process is just a piece of frustration-inducing wire.

From a wooden keys sporting, piano-only, virtual piano software controller from a real piano company a consumer should reasonabley be able to expect that the playing experience would be made the priority and point of departure in product design and development decisions.

Your proposed solution would work on a keyboard where the music stand is at a normal depth, but it only solves part of the problem for the VPC-1 unless there is a way to bring the distance of the music desk to the player to the same ranges of distance found on a real piano.

So, far the last solutions shown by James (before the photoshopped, oversized Kawai grand music desk) seem to be the most promising.

From the point of view of displaying scores, a tablet would have to have the following characteristics for me:

- at least A4 size but preferably the same size display as Henle urtext editions;

- a stylus that allows one to make annotations easily;

- library software to manage pdfs, versions, etc.;

- a page turning pedal or responsive touch screen;

- a mount for an adjustable stand such as suggested by James or a music desk that has the same functionality as a music desk on a real piano.

Hi whitfit,



I'm glad to hear you enjoy it!



It's not the best, I agree. but it serves a purpose and is surely better than no music rest at all.



I don't believe I have been critical of others, however my apologies if I gave that impression.



I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you suggesting it would be preferable to not include a music rest?



Okay, I take your point - larger/thicker books may not sit comfortably on the MP10 music rest.



And I'm sure others would too. However, the question is whether the majority of consumers would be willing to pay extra. For many, the included music rest is fine, while a large number of others might never use the music rest at all. The challenge is trying to produce an instrument with the right balance between features, quality, and price.



Yes, I too place my keyboards beside the wall.



Thank you, I appreciate your feedback. For the record, I agree that the music rest is not perfect, and could be improved. However, I also appreciate the challenges that my R&D colleagues face in realising these improvements, while still keeping everything within the allocated budget.

Kind regards,
James
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Do the R&D colleagues know anything at all about feedback from buyers who are not really happy with the rest and the suggested solutions ?? Like refitting the little metal legs of the translucent stand - you already make - so they fit on the MP6/MP10/VPC and perhaps older model ?

Or is everything being discussed here and on other fora being filtered and anxiously kept from them so they are still completely ignorant and in the assumption they made the best stand in the world and everybody is happily using the stand and know nothing about the complaints and so obvious and simple solution, that might even generate some nice sales in accessories (a big margin market).

As indicated most wouldn't even care to spend some extra on extra accessories as long as they are available - so "keeping everything within budget" seems a lame excuse to me. I'm still under the impression the thought to include another stand never crossed ones mind, despite complaints about the stand on the MP10 and others in the past. However, the VPC is NOT a stage piano like the MP10 and mostly intended to sit in a studio or at home and function as a piano (!) - and a decent piano has a decent stand.

You agree the current stand is a compromise. Why not at least suggest the idea of a better stand to the R&D department and decision makers, instead of rephrasing " it's not perfect, but it is as it is and there's nothing we can do about it" ?

I thought I was done with this , but the remarks pushed me to open the subject ones more, cause I simply fail to understand why it "is as it is and can't be changed".

I understand many remarks here that state " Who needs a stand anyway. Play by the ears. Buy your own separate stand and put it behind the VPC. Stop whining ! " but

It's marketed as a Virtual Piano(!) Controller and targets mostly piano lovers who wish to couple the best keybed with the best piano software out there. Probably many classical and Jazz music players that use sheets and music books a lot. Giggers will buy another stage model or an MP10 and in that situation the stand may not be needed. Putting a separate stand behind the VPC is yet another thing, makes you reach even farther over the piano and readability much harder and in many situations - studio desk / against the wall - is not an option.

Please don't consider this a bunch of whining , never satisfied , boring customers , but take the suggestions for improvements seriously and have R&D etc take notice. The solution seems so easy and again might generate extra sales along the line...

Hi fizikisto,



Thank you.



Yes, it's clear that for some folks posting in this topic, the music rest is very important.
However, as I pointed out in my response to whitfit, not everyone shares this opinion, moreover, not everyone would be willing to pay extra for a large music rest that they may never use.



Respectfully, I disagree. If it was so easy to accomplish, all DP manufacturers would be including perfect music rests, and you would not be frustrated.



Yes, it's a nice accessory.



58 Euros on Thomann.de. To be honest, I'd say that's a fair price given the assumed quality and relatively small number of units Clavia produce.



That's fine.



So to clarify, you wouldn't have any objections to Yamaha, Roland, or Kawai, etc. charging a similar price for such an accessory?



I agree with you on many of those points. It is all about finding the best balance between quality, features, and price that will appeal to the majority of consumers.



I'm sure the VPC team hope so too.



Sounds like a plan!
Maybe I should set-up an online poll page on the VPC website, allowing folks to vote on which accessories they'd be most interested in?

Or perhaps even a Kickstarter project?

Thank you for your feedback.

Kind regards,
James
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That looks like an interesting solution, good find!

Can anyone identify the board shown in the example images?



Cheers,
James
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Or, perhaps even more accurately, the budgetary constraints that your manufacturing engineering colleagues had to deal with (simply use existing supplies and existing assemblies to put out what is basically just a stripped down existing product) rather than challenges of RESEARCH and DEVELOPMENT which would imply coming up with a built-from-the-ground up designed virtual piano controller starting with well-understood and investigated customer needs and designing a product to meet them.

It is tough being a small company. However, many small companies do have potential advantages such as being more nimble, more flexible, potentially closer to the market, etc. When small companies combine the disadvantages of a small company (not being able to afford to build what customers want) with the disadvantages of a big company (not listening) is when I begin to worry.

Hi theJourney,



My colleagues and I believe there is a market need for a professional-quality keyboard controller, geared towards the growing community of virtual piano software players.



So far the response to the VPC1 has been extremely positive (pitchbend and music rest concerns aside...), which - fingers crossed - should help to pave the way for future accessories.



Possibly, although I hear they also make really great music rests.

Thank you for your feedback.

Cheers,
James
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JFP, thank you for your post (and nice Photoshop work...).

I've already sent an email to my work email address, reminding me to raise this topic with the VPC team/R&D.

Cheers,
James
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Please don't worry tJ!

James
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Is there a bigger , more high res picture available ? Could it be a Croma , or old Roland - though Roland doesn't use mod/pitch wheels , mmmm ?

Nope, that was all I could find. The fact that it's a .gif may also offer some clues as to the instrument's vintage - it might even be a Kawai!

James
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