Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum need help, Kawai K3 or Petrof 125 G1???

hi, I'm looking for a piano for my daughter who is 6 years old. now, I narrow down two pianos,but have big trouble on making decision. I don't play piano, so I really need suggestions on these two pianos.please help, piano drive me crazy!
my options are:
1. brand new Kawai K3 $5300
2. 2005 Petrof 125G1(like new condition) $4200
someone said Petrof's quality isn't stable,it needs extra care, but other opinion is Petrof is good piano. I'm totally got confused!does anyone have Petrof upright or know Petrof piano? please give me more information about this brand.
how to compare with Kawai K3 and Petrof 125? which one is the best choice?
they are all in my budget,and I don't want to upgrade to grand piano in the future. just need a piano which has stable quality and nice tone.
please please help!! thanks a lot!

if the Petrof has renner actions then I would say Petrof.
K3 is a safe choice that you cannot go wrong with. I havent played a petrof piano yet but I generally prefer european tones over Kawai by a large margin.

my question is do you like the tone of that particular petrof?

The Kawai is a safe choice. The price is fine. The Petrof has a little more musical potential in my opinion, but the Kawai is more than adequate for a child learning.

The Petrof would require an inspection that you would pay for out of pocket. That would probably cost you around $100. If you yourself played or your child had already studied for several years, any deficiencies in the Petrof's action would most likely be apparent. Since neither of those situations apply, you're best served by a professional opinion.

The price of the Petrof is excellent if it checks out as lightly used with no shortcomings in its action.

thanks for your suggestion. neither me nor the saler don't play piano. the guy who just tuned the petrof 125 couple weeks ago told me the tone is similar as Kawai. since it will cost $100 for inspecting and 2 hour driving, I want to know is it worth to do that？does Petrof is better that Kawai?

thank you for your reply! the price of Petrof already include inspection, moving and tuning. is it a good price？

someone said Petrof's key will get stuck sometimes and the action is little slow. does anyone has these problems?

It is a very good price. The Petrof verticals are some of the best. There is no comparison in the sound between the Kawai and the Petrof, with the edge going to the 125G1. They are in a totally different class.

At this point, the results of the inspection could be the deciding factor.

It's not a question of the tone. The point you would want a piano technician to verify is the action. That's the complex mechanism that connects your daughter's fingers to the strings that produce the sound. When Petrof pianos do show inconsistency, this is the area in which they are inconsistent.

An inspection included in the sales price is not the same as having an independent professional inspect the piano for you.

The Petrof price is excellent if it checks out. However, the Kawai K3 is more than adequate for a child learning, is not over-priced, and will retain a good part of its purchase cost due to Kawai's excellent reputation and transfeerable warranty.

With Petrofs, there are two different actions which could be in the piano. One is by Renner, and the other by Detoa. Renner is considered the standard of the industry. The Detoa action, requires a very careful regulation, either when new or if purchased used, but they they are a very functional action and would not be a limitation for a student.

That is something to discuss with the technician doing the inspection. I agree with Turandot. Have the inspection done by an independent technician.

hi, Marty, is that means Petrof 125 G1 is a higher(or better) class that Kawai K3??

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.

That is a very good price, and if the piano checks out, it would be my choice.

Do you have a friend who plays the piano? At least that way, you could get an outside opinion.

numbers--understand i'm biased as i own a petrof upright (the next size up) which was also built in 2005. i auditioned the kawai k3 and k5 before buying the petrof.

turandot is right that, assuming a tech check ok's the petrof (and you should have a tech look at any used piano), either piano would be suitable for initial training.

imo marty is also right that the sound of these pianos could hardly be more different. And i think tone should be a consideration if the petrof checks out.

within the last year there was a thread here about petrof 125 and detoa actions. look it up. i am reasonably sure that at this price there is no renner action in this piano. but that is ok because by 2005 detoa actions were more consistent and performed well for the 125.

don't be afraid of the petrof if it checks out. and it is a very good price.

Gut,

Long time, no read.

I think you and I have chatted about Petrof tone in the past. I'm very hesitant to tell someone that one piano has a better tone than another. People can make up their own minds about that. I did post that IMO the Petrof 125 had more musical potential than the K3, but the kid is six years old and the parent is exasperated with piano shopping. I sense that the parent just wants to put the purchase to rest.

As I think you know, it's not a simple either-or with Detoa and Renner in a Petrof. Many Petrof verticals use some Renner parts and other parts. Thee actions are assembled by Petrof. Renner stickers are often applied to the rail and elsewhere, but that's hardly a gold standard. In my own mind I question whether even a pure Renner action is the gold standard. They vary depending on the brand and model. It's not like Renner designs the piano.

As long as the tone is reasonable, I'd give the action priority over tone in a piano for a six-year-old. So I would be very hesitant to claim that a Petrof vertical is a better piano or better class of piano than a similar Yamaha or Kawai for just that reason. Japanese pianos are user-friendly and technician friendly. That's a big part of their popularity.

Would it be feasible to have some input from your daughter on this? A 6 year old child who can play even at an elementary level may have a preference between these two instruments.
Without wanting to wade into the debate about the "superiority" of European over Japanese pianos, I would say that Petrof and Kawai are just different pianos which give a different sound and playing experience. Both Kawai and Petrof are well respected piano makers.

The Kawai K3 is a new piano with a full, 10 year, transferable warranty.

The Petrof is an 8 year old instrument, but $1,100 cheaper.

The action on the Kawai K3 is Kawai's Millenium III, yet the Petrof may have a Renner action.

Specifications are really less important than how both pianos play and sound in their respective showrooms. If you do not play yourself, get someone to play each one. Listen carefully and that should help you to come to a decision.

Robert.

Nice summary, Robert, and good advice.

I would add that the actual choices available in a 125 G1 are a Petrof original action fashioned mainly of Detoa parts by Petrof and a Petrof/Renner action fashioned of Renner parts and other parts by Petrof. In my experience, both of those actions show enough variation among samples to warrant close inspection.

yes if the petrof is in exccelent shape and If you like the tone and action more than Kawai it can be a great deal.
meanwhile K3 is always availble.

Hi turandot

I must have left the impression that I think Petrof has the better tone. I didn't mean to. I was reacting to what the op was told that Petrof "quality isn't stable." The op wants to know about the brand and wants a "stable quality and nice tone."

Petrof of course suffered in the 90's from problems with some of its actions. By 2005, actions and quality control were much better so that here we are just dealing with a used piano that needs a tech check.

Otherwise, they're both good pianos with very different personalities. I don't think the op has yet heard either one (though she will soon be hearing one of them every day). And the 6 year old, who will not in any case be laboring under the burden of sticky spinet, may well be motivated to practice by the tone of the piano. So, I would steal a good line of yours and change the meaning---As long as the action is reasonable, I'd give the tone priority over action in a piano for a 6 year old.

Why on earth are you offering opinions on a piano brand you have never played and obviously know little about in terms of action or tone quality?

To the OP, I'm a fan of the Petrof 125 (never met one I didn't like, though many that could use a little tweaking), but have a healthy respect for the K3.

I gave up on trying to figure out the answer to that question long ago.

All the same, the OP has gotten a healthy diversity of opinion from people who know the pianos. Sometimes a new member puts up a Petrof inquiry and the pickings are pretty slim.

It's always revealing when someone states . It kind of sets the "tone" for disregarding it.

having played around 50 different pianos from most "good brands" for past 3 month for my own piano hunt I have got a general idea of my own generalization.
before I go to a dealer I do check reviews and recordings online to get some "pre-ideas".
Petrof 125 was on my list and close to checking out a used petrof 118, but unfortunately no one carries them in Toronto now. I have read every "petrof" thread in this forum from the past 10 years.

I admit that playing the real piano is very different than just reading "papers" and hearing recordings. But this has been something I am very use to for my long established audiophile hobby. While experiences are completely different - I am usually able to predetermine the conclusion before I check things out.

I am fairly confident for the opinions I gave to op. In fact I think it is subjective enough to let op to make his own decision.

here is a clip of a Piano duet: Petrof P 125 G1, Kawai US-60M
as a starting point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgxaeQMlH-w