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#2039513 - 02/26/13 10:01 AM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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1001 pianos Offline
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france
For me it's the Steinway ... 1) sound quality, 2) sound variability in the time 3) depreciation/valorization


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#2039528 - 02/26/13 10:22 AM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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And, the battle has been raging since 2008! The new Yamaha CFX is no longer the same instrument (CFIIIS) as it was four years ago.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2039586 - 02/26/13 12:05 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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The CFX is a completely different beast, with a much bigger range of color (especially when pushed hard) compared to its predecessor CF-IIIS.

Having played it quite a number of times, to me (and seemingly also quite a few professional classical pianists - including long-established Steinway Artists), it is a valid alternative to the Steinway D in the concert hall, able to project itself over big orchestras as well as in its own right in piano recitals. In comparison, the CF-IIIS sounds somewhat insipid and colorless.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
#2039597 - 02/26/13 12:27 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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For me, it remains to be seen. I have a venue which has received its D, but is waiting for its CFX. So I will get the direct comparison. There is a DC6 there, which needs some set-up, needing to be voiced down. This is the difference. Steinways need to be voiced up, while Yamahas need to be voiced down. The results depend on how that is done.


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#2040267 - 02/27/13 04:01 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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Regarding Yamaha's "discontinuation" of certain models, it is my understanding that this is NOT a bad thing. I had learned that there are/were a group of piano technicians that reported to work each day (in Hammamatsu, Japan) in search of producing a "better product". Each year at NAMM, "new" acoustic pianos were unveiled as "replacemnt models".

So, it does not surprise me in the least to hear of yet another "new" Yamaha 9' concert grand piano.

Paul


Retired Industry Professional
#2161944 - 10/04/13 10:45 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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"The Steinway is more likely to attract a better calibre of visiting musicians."

I think there is a lot of truth to this. While in a lot of regards the two pianos may offer a similar quality of playing experience, with some differences, at the end of the day one of them is a Steinway and one is not. It is my opinion that these are the two categories of pianos, Steinways and everything else.

#2161978 - 10/05/13 02:01 AM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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Ironically I came across a similar situation to the original post a couple of years ago. The college in question was located in South East London and the young musicians concerned reaching grades 7 and 8 (the most dedicated ones only of course) before graduating.
This college went with the Yamaha. This was an excellent piano to use for teaching : very well maintained. Acoustically it suited its recital room very well indeed. Understandably it was the only concert grand the college possessed.

The issue with the students was psychological. They simply did not equate a brand such as "Yamaha" as being in the same league as "Steinway and Sons". When shown musical challenges substantially beyond their current levels of attainment and seeing how well the Yamaha responded, questions such as "Wow : I would love to hear that on a Steinway" would be made. The more dedicated students were always hopping "over the fence" to another institution where the occasional time on smaller Steinways could be obtained. In their minds there was simply no doubt that they were returning to "second best".

Of course, the fact that this big black beast was an instrument for them to realise their music and improve technique was made, but I could see this was not really getting through.

I believe the psychology of all of this does have a very direct bearing on such situations, today of course the student is the "customer" and they must be satisfied.


Steingraeber E-272 and Walcker pipe organ
#2162162 - 10/05/13 01:59 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted by AJB
The English like few things better than baiting Americans about history. Disgraceful. The English sardonic or dry humour is often not grasped or appreciated by our friends across the pond. And double standards abound.

At present I am involved in a corporate transaction with some American gentlemen who are seeking to invest in a controlling share in a little business in Europe.

I had dinner with six of them just before Christmas and we were talking about ancestry. Each of the six was passionate about his European origins. Three claimed Irish ancestry. They were the ones who liked potatoes. Two claimed Italian ancestry. They were the ones who liked pasta. The sixth claimed English descent and he was the one with a sense of humour.

Had one of them had German forbears, I am sure he would have agreed with us that Steinways are in fact German pianos through and through. With maybe a few recent (i.e. 100 years ago) US touches here and there.

With kind regards

Adrian


Adrian,

Did you get your questions answered sufficiently? BTW, I am very fond of a dry British wit.


Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/greg-dempster/34/325/6b9/ (my day job)
#2162166 - 10/05/13 02:07 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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I used to be known as a wit, but now that is only half true.


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#2162217 - 10/05/13 04:01 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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Norbert Offline
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Quote
Had one of them had German forbears, I am sure he would have agreed with us that Steinways are in fact German pianos through and through. With maybe a few recent (i.e. 100 years ago) US touches here and there.


Isn't same true for a good proportion of white America?

Norbert wink


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#2162230 - 10/05/13 04:34 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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Huh? I know many Germans who happen to be white Americans. I happen to be one of them.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2235796 - 02/22/14 03:12 AM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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Adrian,

How did it turn out with the Steinway D from Switzerland ???

!!!


Casio PX-360 digital piano, Mojo 61 digital organ, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.
#2235797 - 02/22/14 03:13 AM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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Has Yamaha upgraded their tuning pin design for the CFIII series ?

Last edited by rintincop; 02/24/14 01:02 PM.
#2236174 - 02/22/14 10:55 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: rintincop]  
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Originally Posted by rintincop

Has Yamaha upgraded their CFIIIS tuning pin design since 2008?

Don't you mean has Yamaha upgraded their tuning pin design for the CFX? wink

#2236792 - 02/24/14 01:00 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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.
Adrian, what happened in the end with the piano that everybody gave so much thought to?
It seems unfair to leave this thread without a conclusion.

#2236800 - 02/24/14 01:50 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: rintincop]  
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Originally Posted by rintincop
.
Adrian, what happened in the end with the piano that everybody gave so much thought to?
It seems unfair to leave this thread without a conclusion.


A 20 month old Hamburg D used in a home. Take a wild guess. That piano was most likely perfect.

But true, it would be nice to have OP verify the final result firsthand.

#2237878 - 02/26/14 10:01 AM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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rintincop Offline
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The homes of the wealthy are where dealers sometimes are able place expensive flawed pianos.


Casio PX-360 digital piano, Mojo 61 digital organ, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.
#2238009 - 02/26/14 03:11 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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The more I think about it...

#2241750 - 03/05/14 03:29 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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I played a D in somebodies home last month and it was not very good, but the owner had no way of knowing. Private homes is where dealers can sell pianos that would not be suitable for a professional setting.

#2241905 - 03/05/14 09:04 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: rintincop]  
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Originally Posted by rintincop
I played a D in somebodies home last month and it was not very good, but the owner had no way of knowing. Private homes is where dealers can sell pianos that would not be suitable for a professional setting.


Tip:
That is why as a pianist shopping for a piano that is to be place in a home, that he be wary of those trying to bilk him of his money. Practice, and let your fingers tell the salesperson that you are not easily cheated.

#2242195 - 03/06/14 12:24 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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Is a Honda Gold Wing w. six cylinder a japanese motorcycle or an US item? (Built in the U.S.A. acc. to japanese drawings).

Is a Morgan Threewheeler (which you actually get again new) a british car, or is it a lousy mixup with american parts as the V 2 engine is an S&S one (no, not Steinway and Sons, but the Harley Davidson tuning specialist S+S). Or is it a british-american-japanese mixup, as it contains (first time in 90 years) a gearbox w. a gear to drive backwards, but done w. a Mazda MX-5 gearbox - what a shame..?..
wink

Is a Centennial D Concert Grand built in New York an american piano even if it still contains it's original soundboard, while the usual behaviour of U.S. piano restorers always goes with the advice that soundboards elder than 40 or 50 years are strong candidaties for extraction and replacement..?.. So a repaired Appalachian Spruce soundboard seems to be a somehow strongly irregular "unamerican" (..) thing (regd. normal american piano technicians P.O.V.)..?..

Hey boyz come on...

Change your weathermaker contracts, if your weather is such bad that the soundboards get wrecked too early!
wink

Get some Vee knifes w. double cutter to cut out the cracks and then glue in the V strips, grind them and get your soundboards repaired correctly, especially if they were made before 1920 and have the original old Appalachian Spruce wood which sounds a tiny bit better than Sitka...

Then again we can talk about "Buy british!", "Buy American!"; or "buy German!"

BTW A lot of piano technician friends use to drive a big BMW; a big Mercedes Benz et cetera... Are these colleagues "bad americans" as they like to drive something other than a Ford Pickup !?!?!

Hey boyz come on...
laugh


Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain
#2242275 - 03/06/14 04:03 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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Norbert Offline
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Quote
BTW A lot of piano technician friends use to drive a big BMW; a big Mercedes Benz et cetera... Are these colleagues "bad americans" as they like to drive something other than a Ford Pickup !?!?!


By same token: is Putin "un-Russian" driving a Mercedes Benz?
[as last seen in Sochi?]

At least I'm a good American myself.

My Passat TDI was made there.... ha

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Chattanooga_Assembly_Plant

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 03/06/14 09:08 PM.

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#2242277 - 03/06/14 04:10 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Rochester MN
Passats are made in Russia?

Norbert, you're American? Or, do you mean North American?


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2242359 - 03/06/14 07:38 PM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: Norbert]  
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Germany
== Off Topic ==

Originally Posted by Norbert

My Passat TDI was made there....


Yes. And the engine came from Györy, former russian influence area ..uuhh hard to tell.. in Hungary. Ok quite near to Austria, if that may help..
wink

== On Topic ==

The Steinway family had good luck with their Alaska investment, uhm? wink Alaska was bought early enough, to heal the appalachian wood problems (over-harvesting) coming up in the 1920ies..

Think: Alaska (with their russian trees, Sitka spruce.. replacing the good U.S. trees on the Appalachian mountains.. ) was russian, until the end of the 19th century. 1867. The purchase was done when Steinway pianos (and the Chickering ones..) won the competition in pianos at the world exhibition in Paris...
wink

As the trees are normally around 200 years old: Yeah, you dear lovers of Steinway pianos (..made after 1928..): your nice piano sound is a born-russian one... laugh LOL

Nasdarowje! Drink, brrriedeärrchänn (little brother), drink!

== Off Topic ==

OK, I confess: 1867, Steinway & Alaska, a Conspiracy theory.

Hey Norbert, in times of "globalization" nearly everything is connected to nearly everything else.. it's high international cooperation time... we in western Europe were made to think this.

Was it a fake? An error?

= = on topic = =

Dear Uncle Vladimir (...he is our brother in piano playing...):

pls. keep the gas pipeline open. If you shut it, you might be responsible for the death of an 137 years old original soundboard. Then I would cut it out, and try to fire a fire with it- on top you and other reckless polticians who make bad politics which might damage super old pianos...

If that might help: I would invite Uncle Vladi and Uncle Barrack to play on a super old Centennial D and pick 'em up with a super old super comfortable Mercedes S class. If that may help to calm down that lousy and nearly useless (and dangerous) Krim conflict.

IMHO: it's not "U.S." or "russian". It is "mankind". Especially when both leaders hold piano music in high esteem. (BTW when I saw Vladi playing a concert grand, which brand was ist? Right. Anything with some S at the side... rounded arms... so: a german one? an american one? wink

A good piano. American drawings and patterns. German craftmanship. Born Alaska, russian trees for the soul of it.

Full Stop.


Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain
#2242600 - 03/07/14 11:28 AM Re: Steinway D versus Yamaha CFIIIS [Re: AJB]  
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What are you all talking about?


Casio PX-360 digital piano, Mojo 61 digital organ, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.
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