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Jean Claude (whom I note is French) has more correct English than many of the English.

To bring us back to pianos and music, at the weekend Howard Goodall presented a BBC TV programme on the revolution in music at the end of the nineteenth century and the beginning of the twentieth. He said Erik Satie, whom his teacher described as the laziest student of all time, started things off in France before Debussy and Ravel appeared on the scene.

'Way off topic, but ...'

What did you order and how was the food?

I didn't order, my hosts did the honors. But in typical Korean fashion there was a variety; it usually starts with a half-dozen or so small dishes of appetizers. Being Korean, it goes without saying that there was plenty of kimchee. There was a variety of pa-jeon (vegetable pancakes). Partly in deference to me—my hosts know that I enjoy it—the main courses were various cuts of beef and pork sliced very thin and prepared at the table on 20 mm thick (give or take) glass platters heated over an open flame. It was excellent. The final course was a spicy vegetable soup (also prepared at the table) and served with rice.

The Australian gentlemen brought some excellent wine from their homeland which they shared with those of us having a taste for red wine. And of course there was plenty of Baijiu (Chinese “white liquor”)—which may explain a lot….

ddf

Hearing about the thinly sliced meat reminded me of eating shabu shabu in Tokyo. In the center of the table was a boiling pot of dashi (Japanese broth), into which the diners waved very thin slices of raw beef that cooked almost instantly. Then the broth, flavored by the beef, and fortified with vegetables, was served as soup to end the meal.

Withindale, 'whom' in your first sentance, which I take to imply a slight rebuke to me, is quite wrong. Whom can only be used for the objective case; who for the subjective is invariable. You would not write 'Jean-Claude whom is French' would you? However I forgive you because of your charming observation about my English.

It must be agreeable to be able to see TV programmes about Satie, Ravel and Debussy. French television generally seems to take the view that music started with Johnny Hallyday.

I must say that these descriptions of Korean and Japanese food sound splendid. Do you think it would work with horse?

J-C.


Edited for appalling spelling mistake.

Howard Goodall, whom I note to be a composer, showed us how Debussy used the pentatonic scale and Rimsky Korsakov the octatonic.

You can find his Story of Music here for a week or two.

Korean cabbage, with or without horse, is an amazing dish.

Alas, the BBC feed is not available in the States. UNLESS someone out there has some clever workaround...

You can use a proxy server as explained here. Notwithstanding what that page says, you should not even consider a free proxy server. It costs a lot of money to provide the bandwidth a bunch of video-streaming users require, and the free services have to pay for that bandwidth somehow. The way they pay for it is by intruding on your web viewing or by harvesting information you'd prefer not to share, like credit card numbers.

A couple of friends with a nephew on the US Modern Biathlon team used one of these services during the Olympics and were extremely pleased with it.

Well done Withendale. You have correctly worked out that by changing the verb from the present to the infinitive you can alter the case structure of the clause, in the process allowing yourself to use 'whom' without error. No backsliding however! I should be very cross to find you writing 'Howard Goodall, whom I note is a composer' in future missives.

On a more general level, hasn't all this chat about 'proxy servers' taken things rather off topic?

J-C.

Indeed. Let's get back to discussing English grammar.

Del,

whenever you might be back in Korea - and have the chance to order, just try Gun Mandu (pronounced "goon mon doo"). They are fingerfood of quite spicy minced meat, fried and wrapped in a Dim Sum-like bakery. They are normally served with a spicy soy sauce with sesame.

Whenever I am in a good Korean restaurant, I could eat Gun Mandu alone even if the other dishes are also mostly GREAT.


If anybody likes spicy East Asean types of cooking, also check out chinese Sechuan style.

On the other hand this site does provide great learning opportunities. Up until this evening I thought that a Proxy Server was a stand-in waiter. I may not yet be altogether clear what a PS is but at least I have some idea what it is not.

Most Europeans I know, when they speak of Europe almost always speak of "Europe". And, most all appreciate their privacy.

theJourney,

As Jean has already indicated: in terms of privacy or lack thereof, there is no difference between Europe and "Europe". There were also people from America at Del's table, and it wasn't necessary to adorn that continent's name with quotation marks / inverted commas. Why should Europe be different?

If I told you that I live in Africa, you wouldn't know any more about me than had I written "Africa".

But perhaps, like Jean, I am also being dense, and the inverted comma is indeed some great protector of anonymity...

Regards from "Africa".

Just because Jean indicates something does not mean that that is the only valid answer or even correct.

Putting quotes around a word when writing, like using one's fingers in the air when talking, is often a device to imply the phrase "so-called" or to indicate irony or mocking or even to indicate the negation, among other things.

In the case of America, I imagine that there are few American citizens of individual states who do not consider themselves American. After all, it is one country. They are Floridians in the winter and New Yorkers in the summer but always Americans, for example.

In contrast, many citizens of individual countries on the European continent do not consider themselves to be European, but rather Italian, Romanian, Polish, Dutch, etc. They are from "Europe". In fact, a good many citizens of countries on the European continent feel a closer bond to America than to Bulgaria, for example. By referring to " Europe " one can emphasize one's distancing from the often nebulous European project. Africa generally refers to the African continent.

The privacy matter can be considered as distinct from the quotes. If a piano manufacturer were from a country such as France or Italy or Holland until recently that essentially only has one major manufacturer, then referring to " Europe " rather than the actual country they are from would provide them with respect and privacy since posting on a public bulletin board without their permission might be considered a breach of trust by those from cultures where privacy exists and is respected. He could also have said " the European continent " (quotes indicating the text that could have been inserted, not the literal inclusion of the punctuation.)

As to Africa, I am aware of no continent spanning project that is equivalent to the political organization of the Federal government of the United States of America that might encourage all Africans see themselves as citizens of one country called Africa nor to the far-reaching project of the European Union trying to unite different cultures and countries into one common market that might encourage citizens to distance themselves from such a project and refer to themselves being from " Africa".

If you were sincere when writing " Regards from ' Africa '" I would assume, given your stated location, that you might be indicating that you are setting yourself apart supporting the traditional Boer narrative that South Africa is a special, God given place, set apart for its new immigrants, not to be confused with all the rest of the basket case countries on the continent.

I'm fascinated. How does one speak of "Europe" and how does it differ from speaking of Europe? A slight apologetic cough perhaps? A full-blown sneering drawl? Does one wriggle ones fingers in the air to indicate inverted commas? Does one wriggle ones fingers in the air to indicate quotation marks?

I am deeply concerned that you may be mixing with the wrong set.

That's exactly what Jean Claude and I've been trying to say...

By the way, when I last looked, America was not a country, but a continent consisting of North and South America, encompassing several countries.

All this "conversation" about punctuation
is "fascinating".

Oh boy - this opens the door to the discussion of how many continents there are. One can make arguments for five, six, or seven.

Anyone want to debate the existence of Pangea?