Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum What brands to consider to Restore?

I understand completely that not even 2 pianos from the same manufacturer are identical nor would each one be a good candidate to rebuild because of condition issues, in short I was more after a shopping list of pianos to help me narrow my search down since there are so many different brands out there many of which I have never heard of. By getting some sort of input from someone else with "Experiance" in rebuilding as I'm sure in their trade they know what works better and what may not and what brands have a higher or lesser quality.

My thought was that since there seems to be a general concensus that all Steinways would make an excellent candidate to re-build provided it hasnt been droped from a 5 story building that maybe it's possible to narrow down my search to a brand in which I won't have to take out a mortgage on. Just as with most products there are pro's and con's for each and every brand.

In the musical, "The Wiz," there's a song called "Don't Nobody Bring Me No Bad News." It's a great song but a bad life motto.

Steve and Rich are two of the wisest, most respected, and most helpful people posting at this site. They're trying to help you, though obviously they're not telling you what you want to hear.

Good luck on your project.

If you want someone with experience, you should be willing to pay for their opinion.

I couldn't agree more with you that in many cases there were good and bad times for companies. This is one of the major reasons I am looking for something pre 1930 back in a time where a person put his family name on a product and the end result mattered quality was always first before their bottom line.

It's sad that today so many companies mass produce their products just to meet the needs of their shareholders or investors, product quality suffers and so does the once great name behind the product.

Thanks for the links and sharing
Bob

People always get their money's worth.

The confusion here is that, in your FIRST post, you stated the phrase "complete restoration", and you are now stating that that is not the case.

Most likely the reasoning for the "flavor" of the posts you're receiving...

We are not mind readers.

You are caustic to replies which attempt to provide you with information pertinent to what you asked, not what you have imagined you asked.

Now, suddenly pre-1930 has come into play. Previously, an art case made an appearance. Figure out what you need to ask and post a clear and cogent request for information.

Those of us who have taken the time to answer your questions are put off by your attitude toward our replies. We should not have to play a twenty questions game to help you out and answer with an attempt to be helpful.

As far as I can tell probably not. From the list of manufacturers below, there were several Chase's out there.

http://www.antiquepianoshop.com/online-museum/

If it just says Chase it seems likely to have been manufactured by one of Milo Chase's companies, Chase Piano (became Starr), Chase Brothers, or Chase-Hackney. A.B. Chase was started by Allen B. Chase and eventually sold to Aeolian.

This site claims 1922 as either when they sold, or at least when quality started to decline.

http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/kron3.htm

Rob

Yeah that's another thing to look out for - there are lots of brands with the same, or very similar names.

Forgot this one - good reading on the fate of a lot of famous brands when they were combined/acquired in the first half of the 20th century:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/908653

(scroll down to 5th post)

That's a great writeup fish, thanks for digging it out! Interesting that he says AB Chase went to American rather than Aeolian. And just to confuse further, this site says it went to United Piano in 1922, the Lester in 1931, then finally Aeolian. At least the 1922 date seems consistent

http://www.concertpitchpiano.com/AB-Chase-Piano-Prices.html

Rob

I've owned a couple of old, early 1900's, Conover uprights (have one now) and they are well built, superb sounding pianos. I wouldn't be afraid to invest some $ in an older Conover.

The thing about spending a lot of $ on an old piano is that you still have an old piano, after the fact.

Rick

Ok Marty, please allow me to start fresh before this heads off into a direction that will do neither myself or anyone of the other members any good.
I'm sorry if I came off a little harsh at first but please try to put yourself into my shoes (a person who don't know much about your industry and comes to a forum like this seeking professional or expert advice) only to have one of your most respected members reply to my inquiry with "this is wrong on so many levels"! now I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but I felt that was completely uncalled for especially coming from one of the largest contributors on this site it was in no way shape or form helpful information in fact it felt like an attack on a question which was posted and ultimately set the caustic tone in motion.

I will however take part of the blame and apologize to anyone who may have been offended do to the fact that I failed to specifically state in my original post that I would have no part in the in the mechanical workings of re-building the instrument but rather only the cabinet.

Starting fresh here if I may?

Hello everyone, I'm new to your forum and have little to no experience in piano restoration however I am considering purchasing a Grand Piano for my own personal use and for the purposes or restoring it to it's original glory.
My involvement in the restoration will be limited to refinishing the cabinet only since I have experience in that field, the mechanical parts of the instrument will be done by a professional.
I would like to stick with an american made model however I would consider a european model, I would like to keep the model year before the 1930's (I was told the quality of most pianos was of a higher grade before this period) and am only interested in an art case piano. Since I am not aware if every piano company had made art case units or not I was hoping to get a little help or push in the right direction here.

A few of the brands I have considered are Sohmer, Chickering, Ivers & Pond and a few others, Steinways and perhaps Mason & Hamlin are going to be a little more then I'm willing to invest at this point so let's discount them for the time being. I would like to keep the budget under 10 Grand from start to finish. Please keep in mind you can deduct the cost of cabinet refinishing since I will be performing that part on my own and possibly dissassembly depending on the re-builders request. Are there any brands that you would not consider for a project like this? I know there are going to be a lot of variables here due to condition etc. I just wondered if there were any black sheep in the piano family that I should not consider purchasing and yet staying within my budget?.

Hopefully this clears up a little bit of the consusion from my original post and allows me to move forward in my quest in finding my perfect instrument.

Thanks ahead of time
Bob

PS. for those who understood my 1st question and responded with helpful information I thank you for your time for those who did not get the gist of the question at first let's try this from the start and just get along for the sake of everyone else on here there's nothing worse the listening to a bunch of BS going on between people over a silly misunderstanding. NUFF SAID

But an "OLD" piano rich with history and hopefully a rich tone!

$10 grand is about what you might expect to pay for a good, functioning ornate Victorian grand piano in unrestored condition. By art case, I am NOT assuming you mean an ornate, beautiful case that was the hallmark of the top-of-the-line pianos of the late 1800s. Those are rare and very expensive ... see the first one on this page: http://www.grandgrands.com/pianopg/soldartcase.html ... even unrestored that piano would be out of the 10k budget ... considerably so, I suspect.

However, you can probably find an ornate, but not super fancy, functioning, restorable instrument for much less. The key is to find something that DOESN'T need major work - something where the plate is uncracked, the case and frame are intact, the Soundboard and bridges are still good, all the keys work, and if possible, the pinblock doesn't need replacement (new strings can be put on using larger replacement tuning pins instead of making a new block). Get a piano like that for less than a grand (good luck) and refinish the case yourself, and you can probably get the action refreshed and the strings replaced for about the balance of that $10 grand. Maybe.

Because of stylistic changes, you are going to be looking at pre-1900 for sure, probably pre-1890, to find a Victorian 'art case' to your liking. However, if you go back too far, you get into straight - strung pianos, which you really don't want (not that they're that bad, but overstrung is better).

Oh yeah, and stay away from square grands of course.

Well now you know how Columbus felt when they all told him the world was flat. You probably won't get much inspiration anymore because after all, what would happen if you have no rebuilding experience but suddenly realize you are a pure genius and a natural at it.

Then... you will get the doomsayers and the purests who will tell you you need to be apprenticed by a 450 year old Monk who rebuilds pianos in some Cave in Tibet or you won't be any good at it.

I knew a guy once who had a thing for wooden boats so he just got some books and built a plank on frame boat from scratch with no experience. Now he has like 115 listed US patents that he draws income from and that boat that his peers told him was an impossiblity sold for like 120 grand.

So the moral is, don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it because you have no experience at it.

J Christie
Nashville Piano Rescue
Since 1918
Nashville, Murfreesboro,
Lascassas, Springfield,
TN

I’ve always avoided controversy and I honestly don’t like to argue… however, since many of the pros here seem to have a gross disdain for the DIYer, or anyone who decides to touch their piano, other than to play it, this post was indeed refreshing.

I think any piano enthusiast or hobbyist or DIYer, if I should use such a term, knows their limitations. No one will ever become proficient at anything if they are not willing to take risks and meet the challenge head on…

Rick

That sounds like the one in a thousand or one in ten thousand exception. Steve Cohen's original post(before the OP indicated it was only the case that he wanted to work on himself because he is highly experienced in furniture restoration)was the best and most appropriate advice at that point in the thread. When someone says they're going to restore a piano without any qualifications it's only logical to assume they mean all parts of the restoration.

Even with the assumption that only refinishing will be DIY, there are still problems with the logic.

Why rebuild a piano that will have a re-sale value well below the cost of rebuilding? This logic applies even if you don't plan on re-selling.

You should limit your brand choices to those that are rebuilt by those with deep experience in the field, as opposed to those who can list pianos that were in their day decent pianos. I would consider Steinway, M&H, an artcase Chickering or Knabe, and any of the well known and well rated Europian brands. If the cost of acquisition were very low, I would also consider a Baldwin, although rebuilt Baldwins are a tough sale in the home market.

Another factor that seems to be pushed under the rug is that even when rebuilding a Steinway, an experienced rebuildwer cannot predict how well they will perform. I suggest buying a piano that has already been rebuilt. That way you know the end result.

And is that what really matters.

+1

Besides, he didn't ask if anyone thought he should do it. He asked for opinions on brands.

I think most of those who become proficient at any aspect of piano care whether tuning, voicing, rebuilding. etc. did it by learning, practicing, and studying under the guidance of those with much knowledge in these areas. "Taking risks and meeting the challenge head on" may sound good but without the training and experience I think it's more like taking absurd risks with little chance of success and attempting things they were totally unqualified to do with usually disastrous results. Of course, if someone wants to practice on a worthless old piano that's different from attempting something on a valuable of potentially valuable instrument.