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#2037013 - 02/21/13 02:49 PM Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1  
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titowsky Offline
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Hello everybody!
I am an italian pianist who is working as engineer for a long period in Germany.
4 months ago, looking for the best digital piano, I tried many of them and at the end I bought a new Kaway CA95 of which I am still quite safisfied.
But... the action is not really convincing for me: I like the sound, the colors that I am able to create... of course it is neither my Yamaha Silent nor my C7, but for my current need to train my fingers it works!

My question: could I find in Yamaha NU1 a significantly better action (which for me is really the most important thing, sometime I am also used to play it without hearing anything, just to "feel my fingers") and at least a comparable sound (I really do not care about other options the Kaway may have)?
Unfortunately I still did not have the opportunity to try it, but I am very interested in maybe changing my Kaway.

Thank you for any advice and above any experienced comparison you could provide!

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#2037032 - 02/21/13 03:40 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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I think only you can answer this.

I have an NU1. I like the key action, but it is not as smooth and quiet as the CA93 ( I have not tried the 95) action. Compared to most DP actions it is quite 'clunky' but provides good tactile feedback. It is of course based on an upright action, so if you are used to a Grand Piano it may not meet your expectations. My view is that pianists will like or warm to it, but DP enthusiasts might not.

Last edited by spanishbuddha; 02/21/13 03:41 PM.
#2037048 - 02/21/13 04:12 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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I tried the NU1 action briefly and was not overwhelmed in comparison with the best DP actions. I guess only N1 and up (did not try them yet) would mean a subtantial step up in the quality of the action.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
#2037117 - 02/21/13 05:54 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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can some one make a comment on the piano sounds of each and which one most accurately replicates a acoustic piano as far as the sound is concerned?

thanks!

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#2037145 - 02/21/13 06:37 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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What's a "Kaway"?


Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D
#2037204 - 02/21/13 08:22 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: maurus]  
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Originally Posted by maurus
I guess only N1 and up (did not try them yet) would mean a subtantial step up in the quality of the action.


There are varying opinions on that. Some people in the forum prefer the NU1. I haven't been able to try the NU1 yet so I can't weigh in unfortunately.

#2037336 - 02/22/13 04:19 AM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: sonycrr]  
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Originally Posted by sonycrr
can some one make a comment on the piano sounds of each and which one most accurately replicates a acoustic piano as far as the sound is concerned?

thanks!


I don't know about anything about NU1 but yesterday evening I A/B compared CA95 internal sound and Pianoteq (with headphones) and after some getting used to, I found the Pinoteq more natural/beleivable/enjoyable. Just to give you na idea, in case you are familiar with Pianoteq. I will try this more times (and also witth loudspeakers) though because I found that my preferences vary with time and state of mind.

#2037337 - 02/22/13 04:21 AM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: gvfarns]  
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Thank you for your kind advices.

I liked so much its woodden keys but the CA95 action continues to seem to me a bit "fake", not real piano, and that is my major issue...
Of course I have to try the NU1 ... but for sure if I do not see evident advantages compared to my CA95 keyboard I will not spend so much money for the change (considering also that NU1 is heavier and more similar to my Yamaha Silent upright I have in Italy).

But considering that I am used to play for year on my Silent upright and I find it perfect for my needs (I also made the keys heavier adding some weight, just for practising and enforcing my fingers... now it is a perfect instrument for trining) ... I thought the NU1 could replicate this personal success smile

#2037338 - 02/22/13 04:24 AM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: Vid]  
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Originally Posted by Vid
What's a "Kaway"?

ehm, sorry, Kawai... I am just a "Yamaha fan" wink

Last edited by titowsky; 02/22/13 04:25 AM.
#2037342 - 02/22/13 04:39 AM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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titowsky, I'm afraid you're going to have to play the pianos in question yourself.

Having said that, I own the N3 and recently played the NU1. I'm giving very serious thought of buying the NU1 and placing that next to my N3. I found the NU1 to be slightly more difficult to play (than the N3) which I found attractive.




website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#2037451 - 02/22/13 11:20 AM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: Hookxs]  
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Originally Posted by Hookxs
Originally Posted by sonycrr
can some one make a comment on the piano sounds of each and which one most accurately replicates a acoustic piano as far as the sound is concerned?

thanks!


I don't know about anything about NU1 but yesterday evening I A/B compared CA95 internal sound and Pianoteq (with headphones) and after some getting used to, I found the Pinoteq more natural/beleivable/enjoyable. Just to give you na idea, in case you are familiar with Pianoteq. I will try this more times (and also witth loudspeakers) though because I found that my preferences vary with time and state of mind.




thanks!

i never heard of Pinoteq..ill look into it.

#2037452 - 02/22/13 11:21 AM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: Dave Horne]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
titowsky, I'm afraid you're going to have to play the pianos in question yourself.

Having said that, I own the N3 and recently played the NU1. I'm giving very serious thought of buying the NU1 and placing that next to my N3. I found the NU1 to be slightly more difficult to play (than the N3) which I found attractive.


do you like the sound from the nu1 or the n3 better?

#2037505 - 02/22/13 12:55 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: sonycrr]  
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Originally Posted by sonycrr
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
titowsky, I'm afraid you're going to have to play the pianos in question yourself.

Having said that, I own the N3 and recently played the NU1. I'm giving very serious thought of buying the NU1 and placing that next to my N3. I found the NU1 to be slightly more difficult to play (than the N3) which I found attractive.


do you like the sound from the nu1 or the n3 better?


I practice 99 percent of the time with headphones ... and with headphones they are identical.




website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#2037510 - 02/22/13 01:05 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: Dave Horne]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne

I practice 99 percent of the time with headphones ... and with headphones they are identical.

Oh!? Even though they are supposedly sampled fom different pianos? Maybe your point is different.

My only complaint about the NU1 sound is the bass could be richer, less grumbling. Sorry about using English adjectives here, but I'm not sure how else to describe it. Lowest D I can hear the strings through the tone. Maybe it's not the strings but it's not pleasant. I added a sub and that helped, but usually I don't bother.

#2037523 - 02/22/13 01:39 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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Hi titowsky

I went through a similar process a few months ago. I was deciding between the NU1, N1, and CA95, and I spent a while comparing them.

My verdict: I didn't like the CA95's keyboard action. I found the keys too slow to rebound, which caused an issue for fast note repetition. I loved its sounds though (especially the Deep Purple style organ ).

I tried the N1 and NU1 side by side, but I couldn't detect that much difference between both piano's actions - which I found surprising, but there you are.

I went for the Yamaha NU1 in the end. The keyboard action is the genuine article, It's a much nicer form factor than the N1, quite a lot cheaper, and it has a nice bright sound. My only complaint sound-wise, echoes what someone else has said in this thread. When sitting at the piano, the bass tones are not as prominent as one might wish. This isn't the case when standing a few paces away though, so I imagine the shape of the piano is blocking the sound in the player's direction somehow.

Best of luck

Matt


#2037526 - 02/22/13 01:45 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: Dave Horne]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne

Having said that, I own the N3 and recently played the NU1. I'm giving very serious thought of buying the NU1 and placing that next to my N3. I found the NU1 to be slightly more difficult to play (than the N3) which I found attractive.


I felt the same way the last time I was trying the NU1 in comparison to the N1 and N2. I prefer the real actions of the Yamaha hybrids over the CA93 but its a bit difficult to compare when the instruments are not next to each other (in time and space). I don't see how you could beat a real action over a simulated one but that said the Kawai CA does have the best action I've experienced for a straight up DP.


Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D
#2037527 - 02/22/13 01:45 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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Emeli Sande, sang at the opening ceremony of the Olympics, just won a Grammy, endorses the NU1. (I know as a Yamaha artist this is just advertising, but ...)

#2037551 - 02/22/13 02:40 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: Taylorius]  
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"When sitting at the piano, the bass tones are not as prominent as one might wish. This isn't the case when standing a few paces away though, . . "

I think it`s important to remember NO piano sounds the same when you play it as when you listen to it being played even a few yards away. Have you heard a pipe organ played up close, and then gone to the back of the church? It`s totally different,


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#2037591 - 02/22/13 04:07 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: spanishbuddha]  
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by Dave Horne

I practice 99 percent of the time with headphones ... and with headphones they are identical.

Oh!? Even though they are supposedly sampled fom different pianos? Maybe your point is different.

My only complaint about the NU1 sound is the bass could be richer, less grumbling. Sorry about using English adjectives here, but I'm not sure how else to describe it. Lowest D I can hear the strings through the tone. Maybe it's not the strings but it's not pleasant. I added a sub and that helped, but usually I don't bother.


I didn't do an A\B test.

I just now looked at Yamaha's site and both pianos use the sample set based on different models though both are what I would consider top end nine foot concert grands.

I think anyone would be happy with the sound through headphones ... and most folks would find the speaker systems on both just fine as well.

I should add that I was very happy with the sound of my old GranTouch hybrid that I bought 14 years ago (and traded in three years ago towards my N3).




website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#2037602 - 02/22/13 04:35 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: peterws]  
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Originally Posted by peterws
I think it`s important to remember NO piano sounds the same when you play it as when you listen to it being played even a few yards away. Have you heard a pipe organ played up close, and then gone to the back of the church? It`s totally different,


You're quite right of course. It's not really a problem anyway, more of an observation really.

Now what I DO wish is that they'd put some more / better non-piano sounds on the NU1. I know it's billed as a serious players piano replacement, and all that - but it wouldn't have killed Yamaha to have stuck a couple of cool organs on there (like the blues organ on the CA95). :-)

Matt

#2038429 - 02/24/13 12:59 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: Taylorius]  
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Originally Posted by Taylorius
Hi titowsky

I went through a similar process a few months ago. I was deciding between the NU1, N1, and CA95, and I spent a while comparing them.

My verdict: I didn't like the CA95's keyboard action. I found the keys too slow to rebound, which caused an issue for fast note repetition. I loved its sounds though (especially the Deep Purple style organ ).

I tried the N1 and NU1 side by side, but I couldn't detect that much difference between both piano's actions - which I found surprising, but there you are.

I went for the Yamaha NU1 in the end. The keyboard action is the genuine article, It's a much nicer form factor than the N1, quite a lot cheaper, and it has a nice bright sound. My only complaint sound-wise, echoes what someone else has said in this thread. When sitting at the piano, the bass tones are not as prominent as one might wish. This isn't the case when standing a few paces away though, so I imagine the shape of the piano is blocking the sound in the player's direction somehow.

Best of luck

Matt



Hi Matt!

I have to say that I totally agree with you!
Yesterday I had the opportunity to try the NU1 for half an hour and... well, better keyboard feeling, absolutely better keys rebound and... yes, no more the impression of playing just an electronic keyboard... not a great keyboard but definitely better than CA95.

But the sound... here I have been really negatively impressed: I want to assume the instrument I played had problems, but I do not think so... just for example: the beginning of Beethoven op.53 with repeated chords was absolutely orrible, impossible to get a soft homogeneous sound, with very strange effects coming out of the repetitions (and believe me: I immediately made it on a acoustic piano just beside and even the seller was impressed!).

I agree about quite all the remarks I read on this forum about sound "issues/limitation" of NU1 (including weak bass and above all strage peaks during repetitions or in other contexts which really do not reflect the pianist execution!)
I can just add that I feel my CA95 much more enjoyable, rich, powerful and "manageable". What a pity...
Anyway I will try another one next weekend...

Tito

#2038472 - 02/24/13 02:27 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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Hello
I am really surprised about your opinion about the sound of the NU1
I have a NU1 (and previously owned a CA93 and alos a Roland HP307)
I will not compare them here as I already did that, but in terms of sound, I can say that:
- I am really satisfied about the NU1 sound, which I found superior to the formerly mentioned pianos
- its sound can be compared with a "real" upright as I play on a real piano for my lessons (a real piano is better, that is right, but the difference is not so "big")
In conclusion, I really enjoy my NU1, for both action and sound

I am wondering if the model you tested had perhaps a problem ??

Cheers


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
#2038501 - 02/24/13 03:17 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: enzo.sandrolini]  
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I will try again next Saturday in another shop... my test with Beethoven Sonata and some other Scarlatti was pretty evident. Maybe something was wrong with the model I tried.

But I remember also an old, very accurate review in this forum, made by an experienced pianist who tried some complicate pieces and came out with major remarks on sound issues with NU1.

I would be the happiest to confirm your statements and I would immediately change my Kawai for the Yamaha.

Let's see... smile

#2038509 - 02/24/13 03:28 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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Ok, but we do you call exactly "strange effects from fast repetitions" ?
perhaps, indeed, I am not experienced enough to reach the limitation you are talking about
If you make some clear explanations, I can make a try on my piano and even share a recording in order to "clarify" that point

Cheers


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
#2038522 - 02/24/13 03:50 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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Indeed the easiest way would be to try the first two bars of Beethoven op.53, playing the repeated chords at performance speed in pp with a very soft crescendo just in the last 2 chromes... it was nearly impossible to play them without getting both missing sounds or other chords suddently sounding louder (with even strong peaks of just some notes of the chords): but my wrist movement (with "rigid" fingers in the positions) is absolutely constant both in speed and power.

Different limitations I noticed in Rachmaninov, where I was not able to get powerful, convincing bass or produce the loud mass of round sound I am used to get in the fff.

I hope my words can transmit the idea...

Thank you for the interesting discussion!

#2038762 - 02/25/13 12:55 AM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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Are these two pianos really in the same class? The NU1 is a fair bit more expensive, although, admittedly, not as much as other pianos I have seen here compared to the CA-95.


-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
#2038792 - 02/25/13 02:49 AM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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Originally Posted by titowsky
Indeed the easiest way would be to try the first two bars of Beethoven op.53, playing the repeated chords at performance speed in pp with a very soft crescendo just in the last 2 chromes... it was nearly impossible to play them without getting both missing sounds or other chords suddently sounding louder (with even strong peaks of just some notes of the chords): but my wrist movement (with "rigid" fingers in the positions) is absolutely constant both in speed and power.

Different limitations I noticed in Rachmaninov, where I was not able to get powerful, convincing bass or produce the loud mass of round sound I am used to get in the fff.

I hope my words can transmit the idea...

Thank you for the interesting discussion!


I would be interesting to hear your reactions to playing a true hybrid piano such as Yamaha's Silent U series with their latest silent system. Do you perceive the same limitations when playing such an instrument with headphones?

#2039044 - 02/25/13 02:06 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: theJourney]  
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Originally Posted by titowsky
Indeed the easiest way would be to try the first two bars of Beethoven op.53, playing the repeated chords at performance speed in pp with a very soft crescendo just in the last 2 chromes... it was nearly impossible to play them without getting both missing sounds or other chords suddently sounding louder (with even strong peaks of just some notes of the chords): but my wrist movement (with "rigid" fingers in the positions) is absolutely constant both in speed and power.

Different limitations I noticed in Rachmaninov, where I was not able to get powerful, convincing bass or produce the loud mass of round sound I am used to get in the fff.

I hope my words can transmit the idea...

Thank you for the interesting discussion!


I would be interesting to hear your reactions to playing a true hybrid piano such as Yamaha's Silent U series with their latest silent system. Do you perceive the same limitations when playing such an instrument with headphones?
Originally Posted by theJourney
Originally Posted by titowsky
Indeed the easiest way would be to try the first two bars of Beethoven op.53, playing the repeated chords at performance speed in pp with a very soft crescendo just in the last 2 chromes... it was nearly impossible to play them without getting both missing sounds or other chords suddently sounding louder (with even strong peaks of just some notes of the chords): but my wrist movement (with "rigid" fingers in the positions) is absolutely constant both in speed and power.

Different limitations I noticed in Rachmaninov, where I was not able to get powerful, convincing bass or produce the loud mass of round sound I am used to get in the fff.

I hope my words can transmit the idea...

Thank you for the interesting discussion!


I would be interesting to hear your reactions to playing a true hybrid piano such as Yamaha's Silent U series with their latest silent system. Do you perceive the same limitations when playing such an instrument with headphones?


I have a Silent Yamaha at home in Italy for more than 10 years (I do not think its silent system is the latest), and I have always been totally satisfied: I prepared many concerts on this instrument and even modified it with some weights inside the keyboard in order to enforce the muscles in the fingers... perfect instrument for my purposes.
I did not notice such problems, I was not used to play it with headphones (just true sound, or totally silent, most time, while watching TV during exercises!)... but I would remember these kind of issues... mmm...

Last edited by titowsky; 02/25/13 02:08 PM.
#2039142 - 02/25/13 04:14 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: titowsky]  
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Hi Titowski

I have found that the lack of bass is only an issue for the player. For anyone listening a short distance away, the sound is great.

On the NU1 the bass speakers are mounted on the front, below the keyboard assembly, whereas the treble speakers are at the top, right in front of the player. So unsurprisingly the treble is all you can hear from the player's perspective - the sound from the bass speakers being blocked by the keyboard itself.

If I sit on the floor and play (not the optimal position, ergonomically) :-) then the sound is great.

To be honest, I'm very happy with my NU1, but I think this is a real design flaw. I may look into buying some auxiliary bass speakers, but its annoying to have to do that, as there's plenty of bass already being generated, it's just all funneled away from the player's ears!

If anyone can recommend some good bass speakers (woofers? sub woofers? I'm not sure) I'd be grateful.


Matt



#2039152 - 02/25/13 04:29 PM Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 [Re: Taylorius]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 282
adak Offline
Full Member
adak  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 282
Canada
Does this make sense? Bass sound is quite low and it doesn't matter where the sub is positioned cause the direction of origin can come from anywhere.

Originally Posted by Taylorius
Hi Titowski

I have found that the lack of bass is only an issue for the player. For anyone listening a short distance away, the sound is great.

On the NU1 the bass speakers are mounted on the front, below the keyboard assembly, whereas the treble speakers are at the top, right in front of the player. So unsurprisingly the treble is all you can hear from the player's perspective - the sound from the bass speakers being blocked by the keyboard itself.

If I sit on the floor and play (not the optimal position, ergonomically) :-) then the sound is great.

To be honest, I'm very happy with my NU1, but I think this is a real design flaw. I may look into buying some auxiliary bass speakers, but its annoying to have to do that, as there's plenty of bass already being generated, it's just all funneled away from the player's ears!

If anyone can recommend some good bass speakers (woofers? sub woofers? I'm not sure) I'd be grateful.


Matt




Casio Privia PX-150

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