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Hi Matt!

I have to say that I totally agree with you!
Yesterday I had the opportunity to try the NU1 for half an hour and... well, better keyboard feeling, absolutely better keys rebound and... yes, no more the impression of playing just an electronic keyboard... not a great keyboard but definitely better than CA95.

But the sound... here I have been really negatively impressed: I want to assume the instrument I played had problems, but I do not think so... just for example: the beginning of Beethoven op.53 with repeated chords was absolutely orrible, impossible to get a soft homogeneous sound, with very strange effects coming out of the repetitions (and believe me: I immediately made it on a acoustic piano just beside and even the seller was impressed!).

I agree about quite all the remarks I read on this forum about sound "issues/limitation" of NU1 (including weak bass and above all strage peaks during repetitions or in other contexts which really do not reflect the pianist execution!)
I can just add that I feel my CA95 much more enjoyable, rich, powerful and "manageable". What a pity...
Anyway I will try another one next weekend...

Tito

Hello
I am really surprised about your opinion about the sound of the NU1
I have a NU1 (and previously owned a CA93 and alos a Roland HP307)
I will not compare them here as I already did that, but in terms of sound, I can say that:
- I am really satisfied about the NU1 sound, which I found superior to the formerly mentioned pianos
- its sound can be compared with a "real" upright as I play on a real piano for my lessons (a real piano is better, that is right, but the difference is not so "big")
In conclusion, I really enjoy my NU1, for both action and sound

I am wondering if the model you tested had perhaps a problem ??

Cheers

I will try again next Saturday in another shop... my test with Beethoven Sonata and some other Scarlatti was pretty evident. Maybe something was wrong with the model I tried.

But I remember also an old, very accurate review in this forum, made by an experienced pianist who tried some complicate pieces and came out with major remarks on sound issues with NU1.

I would be the happiest to confirm your statements and I would immediately change my Kawai for the Yamaha.

Let's see...

Ok, but we do you call exactly "strange effects from fast repetitions" ?
perhaps, indeed, I am not experienced enough to reach the limitation you are talking about
If you make some clear explanations, I can make a try on my piano and even share a recording in order to "clarify" that point

Cheers

Indeed the easiest way would be to try the first two bars of Beethoven op.53, playing the repeated chords at performance speed in pp with a very soft crescendo just in the last 2 chromes... it was nearly impossible to play them without getting both missing sounds or other chords suddently sounding louder (with even strong peaks of just some notes of the chords): but my wrist movement (with "rigid" fingers in the positions) is absolutely constant both in speed and power.

Different limitations I noticed in Rachmaninov, where I was not able to get powerful, convincing bass or produce the loud mass of round sound I am used to get in the fff.

I hope my words can transmit the idea...

Thank you for the interesting discussion!

Are these two pianos really in the same class? The NU1 is a fair bit more expensive, although, admittedly, not as much as other pianos I have seen here compared to the CA-95.

I would be interesting to hear your reactions to playing a true hybrid piano such as Yamaha's Silent U series with their latest silent system. Do you perceive the same limitations when playing such an instrument with headphones?

I have a Silent Yamaha at home in Italy for more than 10 years (I do not think its silent system is the latest), and I have always been totally satisfied: I prepared many concerts on this instrument and even modified it with some weights inside the keyboard in order to enforce the muscles in the fingers... perfect instrument for my purposes.
I did not notice such problems, I was not used to play it with headphones (just true sound, or totally silent, most time, while watching TV during exercises!)... but I would remember these kind of issues... mmm...

Hi Titowski

I have found that the lack of bass is only an issue for the player. For anyone listening a short distance away, the sound is great.

On the NU1 the bass speakers are mounted on the front, below the keyboard assembly, whereas the treble speakers are at the top, right in front of the player. So unsurprisingly the treble is all you can hear from the player's perspective - the sound from the bass speakers being blocked by the keyboard itself.

If I sit on the floor and play (not the optimal position, ergonomically) :-) then the sound is great.

To be honest, I'm very happy with my NU1, but I think this is a real design flaw. I may look into buying some auxiliary bass speakers, but its annoying to have to do that, as there's plenty of bass already being generated, it's just all funneled away from the player's ears!

If anyone can recommend some good bass speakers (woofers? sub woofers? I'm not sure) I'd be grateful.


Matt

Does this make sense? Bass sound is quite low and it doesn't matter where the sub is positioned cause the direction of origin can come from anywhere.

Hi spanishbuddha

I'm interested in your solution to the NU1's inadequate bass (you mentioned that you added a subwoofer). I'm inexperienced in such things - could I ask you which subwoofer you used, and where you placed it? Were you happy with the improvement in the bass?

Matt

Hi Matt. I have a Rokit speaker system at home, and tried just the 10s sub with my NU1. I placed it to my side, although as someone else says for the low frequency rumbles, position should not matter. Yes it helps and makes a difference. It certainly exposed my beginners heavy LH. I'm not sure I got a good balance but did not try the main Rokit speakers too. The sub is not cheap so get one on trial, or buy from a store with a return option would be my suggestion if you're not happy with the bass. I no longer have the sub connected as I'm quite content with the sound for purpose of practice. I'm also quite content with the key action which is not as smooth and easy as some of the best DP actions. That's partly what I like about it, it's just like my teachers acoustic.

That is what I liked about my old cheap, cheap Suzuki SS-90...it felt like playing a spottily regulated upright and as such was a good practivce piano.

My Roland HP-307 makes things too easy and makes things sound too good. Which, for practice, can be a bad thing.

Since the NU1 has the hammer action of an upright, it plays pretty much like...an upright ;-) With all it's advantaged and shortcomings. The CA95 GF is modeled after a grand piano action. Apart from the perhaps "too easy" touch of the CA, I think it's only logical that they are so different. If you prefer upright than the NU1 is unbeatable , but if you're looking for a grand action, people may decide otherwise. In short - I think it's hard to compare the two 1:1 since it's not the same action they intend to be and therefore personal preference may play a big role. I found the NU1 to have pretty much the same feeling as the nice acoustic upright in my parents house. But for me I'd prefer something more smooth; I'm probably too lazy to do the harder work on the upright acoustic mechanism. So which one is 'better' ; I think that answer is too subjective.

I agree that learning to play on a piano that is too easy might give you a hard time later on with other instruments. But will it make you a better / worse pianist in the long run ; I think there's no scientific proof of that (yet).

@JFP,

Since I have a CA95, and, the feel of an action is always a subjective thing from player to player I do not think that the GF in the CA95 is "too easy." It is quite weighted in fact, as I find it heavier in response than my V-Piano, or, other Casio's and a Kurzweil that I have tried. The V-Piano's action is far lighter and easier to play on than the GF, no question.

I do know that the CA95 is weighted to feel exactly like the acoustic grand (RX model) that Kawai fashioned the action after.

Has anyone measured the actions; in grams, for either/both pianos yet?

If you have an NU1 or CA95 here is a link on how to measure your pianos touchweight (2/3 the way down on the page): http://www.pianofinders.com/educational/touchweight.htm

In my option this will not represent the user feel of the action but it is better than saying smooth, fast, heavy, etc. Numbers usually don't lie.

I know, it's just that others classified the Kawai action(s) as such, especially in comparison to the upright action of the NU1 and I just wanted to stress that the difference is understandable , because the GF is modeled after a grand action and not an upright. A good grand action is usually easier on the fingers than most uprights in my experience. The exceptions proves the rule , of course...

Numbers may not lie, but the best way to judge any piano is simply to play it.

If I change the touch sensitivity on my N3 from the default value of 2 to 3, it really feels like I'm playing another action, one that is more difficult to play. If I had measured the action what would the numbers have really meant?

Numbers are for those who read spec sheets; when it comes to pianos there ain't no shortcuts, you gotta play 'em.

Ok, update from my side: I have been playing for 2 hours an NU1 in Konstanz just beside an N3 and a CA95.
I do nor report the same defenct I noted in the NU1 in Italy: although the fast repeated notes are not perfect, the piano is enjoyable and the keyboard for me is much much more convincing than the CA95 one (but I still prefer its sound).
The repeated notes were much better on the N3 (even very very fast, the sound was absolutely as expected), the keyboard heavier, and I liked that, but not so natural... and of course, for that price I would buy an acoustic, no doubts.

So at the end... yes, I gave back my CA95 to get a new NU1, but... I will try it at the shop before getting it at home: at least two keys in the model I played produced a louder sound than the others (even the shop seller recognized that). Now I really hope that this NU1 has not too many defects, or is not too delicate.

Anzwaz I am happy and convinced of my choice!

Congrats, I think the NU1 is a great alternative for piano practice. In the UK they offer free extended warranty, so five years in all, not sure about Germany or Italy. Of course you hope never to have to need to use it, but it provides some further assurance.