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Originally Posted by Numerian
Good for you to point out possible changes in Horowitz's hearing.


OK...

But hearing and perception aside, as his piano still had to carry piano sound in a large concert venue, the loss of mass did not in and of itself preclude the instrument from having sufficient power to do what it needed to do for the audience...no?

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Jim's observation is the same that I have experienced in the 30 years since I developed "Light Hammer Tone Regulation" protocols.

I have drilled lightening holes in concert grand keys just like the OP is inquiring about. They do help a little but nothing like dealing with the hammer weight.

Horowitz would have sounded like Horowitz on any piano. His sound, like other great pianists, is NOT a function of the piano. His comfort and confidence IS. Mr. Mohr used no techniques on Horowitz's piano that have not been used on other pianos by other technicians, at least that was my observation and what Mr. Mohr told me.


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I suspect that Horowitz was playing this piano with a heavier action in the 1940's,

I think you are right Ed and I have heard the same things you describe.
Horowits would not play in Germany after the WW2, but from old journal films I have seen him picking out a new Steinway D in the Hamburg factory. This was a few years after the war.
Looked like he played with great joy, and those pianos were the standard D's in the showroom.

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From the regulation parameters Ed Foote mentioned earlier in this post the setting of the jack and the drop seem the most notable since these would remove points of resistance.

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Do the key levers really need to be as strong as they are? Correct me if I'm wrong, but those thick, solid pieces of wood seem to me to be a bit over-engineered for the stress encountered while playing.
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In my opinion they are under-engineered. On a SS-D they will flex quite a bit because of their length, especially in the bass. At some point with harder playing, there is no increase in power or volume because of flex in the keys and hammer shanks.
Maybe one day Bruce Clark will design a key that is similar to his hammer shanks in this respect.


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Quote
Do the key levers really need to be as strong as they are?

See this post.


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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Jim's observation is the same that I have experienced in the 30 years since I developed "Light Hammer Tone Regulation" protocols.
I have drilled lightening holes in concert grand keys just like the OP is inquiring about. They do help a little but nothing like dealing with the hammer weight.

This sounds very interesting. Can you tell us a bit more about what you do to lighten hammers? Do you replace the hammers altogether with smaller ones, or do you modify existing hammers to lighten them, and how?

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renenkel,
A full description of the method would be a book length post. I have written a book titled "The Educated Piano" which details the procedure. It is intended for Technicians. For a DYI the process and tools required are beyond what should be attempted except by the most implacable fools. I still have copies of the book for sale, but not many.


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I should add that Horowitz being comfortable at his piano, helped HIM be Horowitz.


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Originally Posted by Ed Foote
[Re: Horowitz piano] What I found was that the hammer blow was near 1 5/8", let-off was at the string, drop was nearly as close. Springs were normal to weak, dip was shallow, I would guess .360". Hammers were light,though I didn't weigh them. Dampers lifted extremely late. Repetition levers were set so that the jacks barely touched the knuckle and the jacks were slightly proximal to the normal alignment. Checking was exremely high.

Ed, does "proximal" mean closer to the hammer pivot side of the knuckle than usual?

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Originally Posted by renenkel
Originally Posted by Ed Foote
[Re: Horowitz piano] What I found was that the hammer blow was near 1 5/8", let-off was at the string, drop was nearly as close. Springs were normal to weak, dip was shallow, I would guess .360". Hammers were light,though I didn't weigh them. Dampers lifted extremely late. Repetition levers were set so that the jacks barely touched the knuckle and the jacks were slightly proximal to the normal alignment. Checking was exremely high.

Ed, does "proximal" mean closer to the hammer pivot side of the knuckle than usual?


Greetings,
Proximal means closest to the player, distal (distance) refers to the opposite. The proximal side of the jack doesn't touch anything but the stop felt, and the distal edge of the jack aligns with the distal edge of the knuckle's core, etc.

By setting the jack closer to the performer, (proximally), the process of escapement is shortened, ( assuming a beginning point as that point at which the tender touches the pad and/or drop screw touches the drop pad), and greater danger of it skipping out under a ff blow. It is a trade-off, (like the mix in a carburetor ie, maximum response is right next to engine failure), The farther proximal they are moved, the more consistent the tech has to be, or the law of averages will visit, usually during a climatic moment in performance, and a great, crashing, note will be missing. People remember that for a lifetime. DAMHIK
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and the leverage at the beginning of the stroke is higher. Cheating jacks can be tested once, twice, etc..

<it is amazing how much we can interfere with hammer acceleration, just with different type of jack location.

Last edited by Olek; 02/25/13 08:10 AM.

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Originally Posted by Ed Foote
The farther proximal [the jacks] are moved, the more consistent the tech has to be, or the law of averages will visit, usually during a climatic moment in performance, and a great, crashing, note will be missing. People remember that for a lifetime. DAMHIK

DAMHIK? Wow, sounds scary! :-) Hope you weren't working for Horowitz at the time! :-) :-)

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Here you can hear how is the sound with light hammers :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dXUgPVjnD0&feature=share&list=PL550F1747A716EEA7


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