 |
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
|
|
72 members (amc252, 20/20 Vision, benkeys, apianostudent, Bellyman, AlkansBookcase, accordeur, akse0435, 14 invisible),
1,987
guests, and
317
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608
500 Post Club Member
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608 |
As I know, the CLP-990 is the only Clavinova model that have the "88 Stereo Sampling". Here's what Yamaha said about it: PURE PIANO SOUND - EVEN "BETWEEN" THE NOTES If you're serious about your music, you don't want an instrument that sounds and plays "like" a piano. You want a piano. Which is exactly what you get with the CLP-990. Cutting-edge AWM tone generation technology ensures that every subtle nuance — from the lowest to the highest notes, and from the softest to the loudest dynamics — is right there at your fingertips. All the keys boast separate stereo samples. In the same way that an acoustic piano has separate strings for each key, the CLP-990 has separate stereo samples for all 88 keys — each one painstakingly recorded from a top-class, perfectly maintained Yamaha CFIIIS concert grand. There's no tricky filtering or pitch shifting to make a single sample sound like several notes: each individual note is a separate and distinctly vibrant entity. What's more, each note is sampled at five separate dynamic levels so that the timbre is right from the meekest pianissimo to the most commanding fortissimo. Naturally, this requires a lot of memory: how about a whopping 80.4 megabytes just for the Grand Piano sound? The CLP-990 features more than just 88-key Stereo Samples to assure authentic piano sound. String Resonance delivers the sound of strings in the related harmonic series resonating when other keys and the damper pedal are pressed. To recreate the changes in soundboard and string resonance that occur when, for example, the damper pedal is pressed, there are Stereo Sustain Samples . Plus Key-Off Samples that reproduce the change in timbre as keys are released on a real acoustic piano. As a final step towards achieving perfection, the CLP-990's Soundboard Reverb effect provides the residual resonance of the soundboard and cabinet after the keys and damper pedal have been released. This is a performance playing with the "Grand Piano 1" voice of the CLP-990: LISZT: Mephisto Waltz No. 1 Another one: LISZT: Hungarian Rhapsody No. 12 Cheers ![[Linked Image]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/65971_4602698341877_495610244_n.jpg)
Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 02/24/13 09:14 AM.
Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,274
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,274 |
To my ears, there's something seriously deficient in that recording (but I admit I don't know how MIDI recording works) - there's zero tonal range and very little dynamic variation. Listen to a real piano http://youtu.be/P5FDtRiN6fY , even for just the first minute (or even better, from 10:35 onwards), to see what I mean, especially about the tonal range: when Trifonov attacks the keyboard, the sound 'sharpens' (i.e. the overtones become louder in relation to the fundamentals) - there's none of that in your recording, which I have to say, sounds very clinical and lifeless.
If music be the food of love, play on!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,565
4000 Post Club Member
|
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,565 |
(takes deep breath)...I agree to a large extent with bennevis (it had to happen one day!).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439 |
Well knock me down! (takes deep breath)...I agree to a large extent with bennevis (it had to happen one day!). I guess it's possible so long as the letters A, G, and V don't rear their ugly heads. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 549
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 549 |
As I know, the CLP-990 is the only Clavinova model that have the "88 Stereo Sampling". Here's what Yamaha said about it: PURE PIANO SOUND - EVEN "BETWEEN" THE NOTES If you're serious about your music, you don't want an instrument that sounds and plays "like" a piano. You want a piano. Which is exactly what you get with the CLP-990. Cutting-edge AWM tone generation technology ensures that every subtle nuance — from the lowest to the highest notes, and from the softest to the loudest dynamics — is right there at your fingertips. All the keys boast separate stereo samples. In the same way that an acoustic piano has separate strings for each key, the CLP-990 has separate stereo samples for all 88 keys — each one painstakingly recorded from a top-class, perfectly maintained Yamaha CFIIIS concert grand. There's no tricky filtering or pitch shifting to make a single sample sound like several notes: each individual note is a separate and distinctly vibrant entity. What's more, each note is sampled at five separate dynamic levels so that the timbre is right from the meekest pianissimo to the most commanding fortissimo. Naturally, this requires a lot of memory: how about a whopping 80.4 megabytes just for the Grand Piano sound? The CLP-990 features more than just 88-key Stereo Samples to assure authentic piano sound. String Resonance delivers the sound of strings in the related harmonic series resonating when other keys and the damper pedal are pressed. To recreate the changes in soundboard and string resonance that occur when, for example, the damper pedal is pressed, there are Stereo Sustain Samples . Plus Key-Off Samples that reproduce the change in timbre as keys are released on a real acoustic piano. As a final step towards achieving perfection, the CLP-990's Soundboard Reverb effect provides the residual resonance of the soundboard and cabinet after the keys and damper pedal have been released. This is a performance with the "Grand Piano 1" voice of the CLP-990. It's the Franz Liszt's famous piece "Mephisto Waltz No. 1" LISZT: Mephisto Waltz No.1 - CLP990 Cheers The Yamaha website says this model is discontinued. And you are touting its specs? .... a whopping 80.4 MB of piano samples? 5 layers? granted, it all comes down to how the DP's sound comes together when played, and its not always about library size etc, and 5 layers isn't all that bad. But it just isn't up to today's standards.
Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250;
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; True Keys American; UVI Yamaha C7; Ravenscroft 275; Garritan CFX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,565
4000 Post Club Member
|
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,565 |
...it all comes down to how the DP's sound comes together when played, and its not always about library size etc... So true.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,134
8000 Post Club Member
|
|
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,134 |
This is not a defense of the Yamaha, but a comment on the difficulty of doing comparisons.
The Yamaha recording isn't a MIDI recording. That would give you the keystrokes' timing, and the "velocity" (hardness-of-touch) of each keystroke. But that's not audio information.
The MIDI signals from the keyboard go through the Yamaha sound generator (88-key sampling, multiple dynamic levels, etc) and come out as digital audio, and that's what gets recorded (probably as a .WAV file, which has "CD-quality" sound (16-bits, 44,100 samples per second).
That WAV file then gets "encoded" (compressed) into an MP3 file. That's what gets stored on the Web, transferred to your computer and "decoded" (uncompressed) into a WAV file (or its equivalent) for playing.
According to the (long) Wikipedia article on MP3, the decoding process is pretty much standardized, but the _encoding_ process is not.
It's quite possible that
(a) the Yamaha recording has been volume-compressed _before_ being passed through the MP3 encoder, and/or
(b) the MP3 encoder used for the Yamaha was different (and worse) than the MP3 encoder used for Trifonov's recording, and/or
(c) the player of the Yamaha just wasn't as dynamically varied as Trifonov.
The bits going into your soundcard, when you play back something from the Internet, are far, far removed from the bits that came out of the digital instrument, or the bits that came out of the ADC that was connected to the microphone that recorded the sound (if it was an acoustic instrument).
. Charles
PS -- sorry if I'm telling everyone what they already know.
. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / Roland Gaia / Pianoteq
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,274
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,274 |
Well knock me down! (takes deep breath)...I agree to a large extent with bennevis (it had to happen one day!). I guess it's possible so long as the letters A, G, and V don't rear their ugly heads. I've seen the light, my friends. I've changed my diet from the Very Good Apples diet to the new Advanced & Versatile Gastronome diet, and am now totally cool  .....
If music be the food of love, play on!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494
3000 Post Club Member
|
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494 |
@trandinhnamanh,
Sounds quite professional (in the performance) and unlike a lot of the other reviews you are getting I happen to like both the playing and the recorded sound which isn't bad at all, by the way.
The main grand piano sound is very clear and crisp and it allows the passage work to really come through as details tend to get lost if there is too much reverb, which is just about right.
You have an excellent digital (even as an older model), one to enjoy!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608
500 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608 |
@trandinhnamanh,
Is that you playing in the recording, or, is it someone else?
Sounds quite professional (in the performance) and unlike a lot of the other reviews you are getting I happen to like both the playing and the recorded sound which isn't bad at all, by the way.
The main grand piano sound is very clean and crisp and it allows the passage work to really come through as details tend to get lost if there is too much reverb, which is just about right.
You have an excellent digital (even as an older model), one to enjoy! Thanks, pv88. I really enjoy my DP. That's not me who play in the recording. It's just a MIDI performance played by the CLP-990. Personally, I don't like the performance itself, it's too artificial. I just used it to try the 88 stereo sampling voice that I really like, powerful and crisp, not just smooth and so easy to play like the new clavinovas.
Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439 |
This was a 2001 model, probably discontinued after two or three years. The Yamaha website says this model is discontinued. Why not tout its specs? It's a fantastic piano! And you are touting its specs? Wrong ... ... isn't all that bad. But it just isn't up to today's standards. It's far ABOVE today's standards. Maybe, just maybe the AG surpasses it. Or maybe not. But no other sampled piano can touch it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
4000 Post Club Member
|
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675 |
This is a performance with the "Grand Piano 1" voice of the CLP-990. It's the Franz Liszt's famous piece "Mephisto Waltz No. 1" This is quite possibly the "best" DP demo song I've ever heard - buckets of staccato, heaps of quick stabbing little notes, no long sustains, no slow solo notes. Nothing to reveal looping or short attack samples. It actually sounds pretty good, but that's why these types of songs are built into the instruments these days. It's far ABOVE today's standards. Maybe, just maybe the AG surpasses it. Or maybe not. But no other sampled piano can touch it. Am I the only one here who finds this statement really sad?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494
3000 Post Club Member
|
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494 |
@trandinhnamanh, Here are two short excerpts of me playing the same piece just so that you can hear what the Kawai CA95 sounds like with the default "Concert Grand" preset with no additional reverb or settings added: https://www.box.com/s/1sj1cihn1q6uvqy9pd3jThe CA95 has a very good grand piano sound.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608
500 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608 |
@trandinhnamanh, Here are two short excerpts of me playing the same piece just so that you can hear what the Kawai CA95 sounds like with the default "Concert Grand" preset with no additional reverb or settings added: https://www.box.com/s/1sj1cihn1q6uvqy9pd3jThe CA95 has a very good grand piano sound. Good job, pv88
Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608
500 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608 |
This is a performance with the "Grand Piano 1" voice of the CLP-990. It's the Franz Liszt's famous piece "Mephisto Waltz No. 1" This is quite possibly the "best" DP demo song I've ever heard - buckets of staccato, heaps of quick stabbing little notes, no long sustains, no slow solo notes. Nothing to reveal looping or short attack samples. It actually sounds pretty good, but that's why these types of songs are built into the instruments these days. It's far ABOVE today's standards. Maybe, just maybe the AG surpasses it. Or maybe not. But no other sampled piano can touch it. Am I the only one here who finds this statement really sad? You're not the only one, I'm sure... At least, the other one is me 
Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608
500 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608 |
This was a 2001 model, probably discontinued after two or three years. The Yamaha website says this model is discontinued. Why not tout its specs? It's a fantastic piano! And you are touting its specs? Wrong ... ... isn't all that bad. But it just isn't up to today's standards. It's far ABOVE today's standards. Maybe, just maybe the AG surpasses it. Or maybe not. But no other sampled piano can touch it. 
Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494
3000 Post Club Member
|
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494 |
As for the "Mephisto Waltz"... Here is a captivating performance by 11-year old pianist Anna Larsen, as she was given a high-five by Lang Lang during the applause at the end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TaF3gJF054She plays like a professional, already.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608
500 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608 |
Hi everyone, Here's another demo I've made with the CLP-990's Grand Piano voice: LISZT - Hungarian Rhapsody No. 12 - Yamaha Clavinova CLP-990 Cheers,
Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494
3000 Post Club Member
|
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494 |
@trandinhnamanh, Thanks for posting: Very good recording overall, as I can imagine the CLP990 sounds even better to the player at the piano, when directly listening to the built-in speakers.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608
500 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 608 |
@pv88, ![[Linked Image]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/421926_4612816954836_845459165_n.jpg) The buit-in speakers of the CLP-990, actually, I don't really like them. The amplification system on newer high-end models (380, 480 etc...) is far above. I have to add monitor speakers (I use 2 x Yamaha MS202II) and set them horizontally behind the piano to make it sounds better. Anyway, for real playing, I have my grand piano. I just use the CLP-990 to practice with headphones and to record my arrangement. But I can say that I'm really happy with this vintage DP. What a great product!  Cheers
Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 03/13/13 06:49 PM.
Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
|
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,391
Posts3,349,273
Members111,634
| |
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
