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#2036302 - 02/20/13 10:19 AM Yamaha flagship Clavinova CLP-990's Natural Keyboard Action  
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Hi everyone,

I'm new on this forum, and sorry for my english, I'm French.

I've just found a Yamaha CLP-990M (mahogany) after a longtime searching everywhere. It's in like new condition.

There's something I'd like to share about the CLP-990:

- Natural Keyboard: found ONLY on 3 Clavinova models: CLP-990, CLP-175 and CVP-900. It's far better than GH, GH3 or even Natural Wood (which is GH3 itself). After a key depth regulation, the CLP-990 rocks like my Yamaha grand.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I've scanned this pic from a flyer brochure or the CLP-175. The total length of this action is quite impressed! (in comparing with Kawai's RM3 wooden action)

[Linked Image]

YAMAHA's GH3/Natural Wood:

[Linked Image]


- 88 Stereo Sampling: found ONLY on the CLP-990. When playing with the Yamaha HPE-170 headphone, I can tell that the CLP-990 is the best DP I ever played. However, its amplification system is not very good, so i've tried to add some speaker systems above and behide the Clavinova, and it sounds much more like a real grand now.

[Linked Image]

IMO, I can say that the CLP-990 is a real flagship CLP Clavinova ever made. As a huge fan of Yamaha, I tried and played all the Clavinova CLP and CVP models (I really mean ALL) through the years, but only the CLP-990 gives me the touch nearest which of a grand piano. AvantGrand and GranTouch are somethingelses, but ofcourse, they're not Clavinova.

Thanks to all the conversations I've read about the CLP-990 on this forum, I found now a very fine instrument that I will keep it for a longtime, maybe forever thumb

Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 03/13/13 06:50 PM.

Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
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#2036336 - 02/20/13 11:29 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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That looks seriously impresssive. But I would have thought the pivot would be rather further back. No matter. It has a sloping front, so it must be good!


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
#2036340 - 02/20/13 11:33 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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I think it is quite sad to see that this older model Clavinova had 88 key sampling. It would mean that current digital pianos have regressed in the last couple of years, as most do not have 88 key sampling. All the sampling and the research and development has been done on the matter years ago but Yamaha would not let the results trickle down to their current low to mid line digital pianos. It would cost them nothing to do so, so what other reasons would they have to hold back?

Last edited by adak; 02/20/13 11:33 AM.

Casio Privia PX-150

#2036345 - 02/20/13 11:48 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: adak]  
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I've read these conversations long time ago, but I still think it's very interested:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...0Grand%20a%20lot%20better%20than%20.html

Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 02/20/13 11:57 AM.

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#2036349 - 02/20/13 11:57 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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Wow. Thanks for sharing!

If I didn't know better I would say that given the history of models since this DP up through the Avantgrand that marketing in big companies such as Yamaha seems to be more about keeping good products off of the market to milk markets for all they are worth with inferior product and then to overcharge for advances year by year.

#2036370 - 02/20/13 12:36 PM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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I knew that the CLP990 was the best Yamaha ever made, but I did not know its action was so different from the current GH3. Thanks for the pix.

#2036394 - 02/20/13 01:21 PM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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Yeah, I played one of these actions before and liked it very well. Rather similar in design to Kawai's wood action. This is the first time I've seen one open, though.

On the topic of key length, as far as I know, the important element of key length is the distance from the front of the key to the fulcrum, not from the fulcrum to the back side of the key (or hammer). It seems like relative to Kawai's actions it is this latter portion that is longer in this action. Just eyeballing it, it appears to me that this action has a greater distance between key and fulcrum than Kawai RM3, but less than Kawai GF.

Thanks for posting these pictures! I think Dewster actually has a thread for this type of picture. Search for "nekkid DP" or some such.


edit:Actually, the picture of GF I was looking at was a black key. Maybe this is as long as GF or longer. Can you get a measurement?

Last edited by gvfarns; 02/20/13 01:23 PM.
#2036410 - 02/20/13 01:44 PM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: gvfarns]  
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Originally Posted by gvfarns
I think Dewster actually has a thread for this type of picture. Search for "nekkid DP" or some such.

Indeed I do! And I added this thread to it.

Beautiful keys trandinhnamanh! I'm trying to figure out how the hammers work? And any measurements you could supply re. front key length (playing end to pivot point) would be interesting.

#2036412 - 02/20/13 01:46 PM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: dewster]  
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I'll try to measure it this week-end smile

Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 02/21/13 01:34 AM.

Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
#2036419 - 02/20/13 01:57 PM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: theJourney]  
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Originally Posted by theJourney
If I didn't know better I would say that given the history of models since this DP up through the Avantgrand that marketing in big companies such as Yamaha seems to be more about keeping good products off of the market to milk markets for all they are worth with inferior product and then to overcharge for advances year by year.

Yep. Kawai had a real beaut that was reportedly unlooped, but for some reason decided to scrap it. Something about how no one would buy it or something.

I guess if they spend their time purposely burying specs, refusing to answer technology related questions, and generally muddying the waters with market speak gobbledegook, the buying public is not being educated, so they don't know what to buy and go for the cheapest shiny thing they stumble across with the biggest name.

#2036489 - 02/20/13 04:20 PM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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EssBrace Online content
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Excellent pictures. Whilst it is not a grand action anything like the AvantGrand's or GranTouch it is certainly (visually at least) far beyond any other Clavinova before or since. I think it had 88 note sampling too - again, unlike all other Clavinovas.

#2036539 - 02/20/13 06:02 PM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action with pics [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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@trandinhnamanh,

Question:

Very nice find indeed, as where or whom did you purchase the CLP990 from, in Europe?

Looks like the wooden keys may be nearly as long as the "GF" action in the Kawai CA95, as this is something not to be found in many digitals.

#2036578 - 02/20/13 07:19 PM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action with pics [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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Key length aside, it's an odd looking hammer mechanism. Seems almost too simple. By all reports it's an effective action though. I would like to see this action in motion.

Tran, Is there any chance you could make a video of this action and post it on Youtube?

#2036584 - 02/20/13 07:29 PM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action with pics [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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Kawai James Offline
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trandinhnamanh, thank you for posting these great pictures.

There are indeed many similarities with Kawai's wooden key actions. After achieving what by many accounts was a highly realistic keyboard touch, I wonder why Yamaha decided to revert back to the plastic key actions? Perhaps it was just too expensive (or not profitable enough) to produce?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2036660 - 02/21/13 12:14 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: theJourney]  
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Wow. Thanks for sharing!

If I didn't know better I would say that given the history of models since this DP up through the Avantgrand that marketing in big companies such as Yamaha seems to be more about keeping good products off of the market to milk markets for all they are worth with inferior product and then to overcharge for advances year by year.


+100!

K.


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#2036676 - 02/21/13 01:01 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action with pics [Re: pv88]  
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Originally Posted by pv88
@trandinhnamanh,

Question:

Very nice find indeed, as where or whom did you purchase the CLP990 from, in Europe?

Looks like the wooden keys may be nearly as long as the "GF" action in the Kawai CA95, as this is something not to be found in many digitals.

Not very likely that a CLP990 (in good condition) would pop up for sale somewhere in the US except for eBay or craigslist, etc.


I've found it on leboncoin.fr , a well-known website for selling manythings between particulars in France. It's in new condition, because the family who owned it haven't got anyone who play piano. It was just a decor furniture. They asked for 1000€, I bargained down to 800€, and finally, after a few little performances of mine to the lady of the family, I got it for 600€ wink

Thanks everyone. I'll re-open up the piano this week-end to mesure the key length, and I'll make a Youtube video of the action movement. The feel of escapement quite impress me thumb

Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 02/21/13 01:06 AM.

Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
#2036677 - 02/21/13 01:03 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Excellent pictures. Whilst it is not a grand action anything like the AvantGrand's or GranTouch it is certainly (visually at least) far beyond any other Clavinova before or since. I think it had 88 note sampling too - again, unlike all other Clavinovas.


It does have 88 Stereo Sampling in 5 levels


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
#2036682 - 02/21/13 01:17 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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600 Euros is a fantastic price - congrats!


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#2036683 - 02/21/13 01:20 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: gvfarns]  
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Originally Posted by gvfarns
Yeah, I played one of these actions before and liked it very well. Rather similar in design to Kawai's wood action. This is the first time I've seen one open, though.

On the topic of key length, as far as I know, the important element of key length is the distance from the front of the key to the fulcrum, not from the fulcrum to the back side of the key (or hammer). It seems like relative to Kawai's actions it is this latter portion that is longer in this action. Just eyeballing it, it appears to me that this action has a greater distance between key and fulcrum than Kawai RM3, but less than Kawai GF.


edit:Actually, the picture of GF I was looking at was a black key. Maybe this is as long as GF or longer. Can you get a measurement?


IMO, the key length of Kawai GF is better, but I don't like Kawai's wooden actions and Yamaha's GH3, NW because of their after-touch. Just too soft and unstable.


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
#2036687 - 02/21/13 01:27 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: theJourney]  
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Wow. Thanks for sharing!

If I didn't know better I would say that given the history of models since this DP up through the Avantgrand that marketing in big companies such as Yamaha seems to be more about keeping good products off of the market to milk markets for all they are worth with inferior product and then to overcharge for advances year by year.


+100000000!


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
#2036777 - 02/21/13 06:49 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: theJourney]  
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Originally Posted by theJourney
big companies such as Yamaha seems to be more about keeping good products off of the market to milk markets for all they are worth with inferior product and then to overcharge for advances year by year.

It's called capitalism, dude smile


"There is nothing to piano playing besides producing the appropriate velocities on the appropriate keys at the appropriate time" (c) qvfarns
#2036811 - 02/21/13 09:04 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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That's a bargain .... That's the best DP yamaha have ever made.


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Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
#2037082 - 02/21/13 06:04 PM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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[/quote] ..., but I don't like Kawai's wooden actions and Yamaha's GH3, NW because of their after-touch. Just too soft and unstable. [/quote]

Finally Aftertouch on my DP action !

(I know - cheap , but couldn't help it...)

Nice pics by the way. When was this beauty first introduced ? I wonder how old it is and how 'far' we've come since then.



#2037302 - 02/22/13 03:04 AM Re: Yamaha flagship CLP-990 Natural Keyboard action with pics [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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Originally Posted by trandinhnamanh
Originally Posted by pv88
@trandinhnamanh,

Question:

Very nice find indeed, as where or whom did you purchase the CLP990 from, in Europe?

Looks like the wooden keys may be nearly as long as the "GF" action in the Kawai CA95, as this is something not to be found in many digitals.

Not very likely that a CLP990 (in good condition) would pop up for sale somewhere in the US except for eBay or craigslist, etc.


I've found it on leboncoin.fr , a well-known website for selling manythings between particulars in France. It's in new condition, because the family who owned it haven't got anyone who play piano. It was just a decor furniture. They asked for 1000€, I bargained down to 800€, and finally, after a few little performances of mine to the lady of the family, I got it for 600€ wink

Thanks everyone. I'll re-open up the piano this week-end to mesure the key length, and I'll make a Youtube video of the action movement. The feel of escapement quite impress me thumb


Good job.

#2038310 - 02/24/13 08:34 AM Re: Yamaha flagship Clavinova CLP-990's Natural Keyboard Action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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Hi everyone,

As promised, I've re-opened up my CLP-990 and mesured the keys of the Natural Keyboard action:

Black key:

[Linked Image]

White key:

[Linked Image]

I can say that the key length (key front to pivot center) is less than Kawai GF but a little more than Kawai RM3.

Kawai RM3:

[Linked Image]

Kawai GF:

[Linked Image]


I've tried the Kawai CA 95 yesterday. I like the touch GF very much, but not the sound, neither the cabinet's look.

I've captured a short clip of the key movement too:

Natural Keyboard action movement





Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 02/25/13 08:37 PM.

Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
#2038361 - 02/24/13 11:14 AM Re: Yamaha flagship Clavinova CLP-990's Natural Keyboard Action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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Compared to the MP10 nekids it seems to me of about the same length as RM3, not longer.

Above all was this not a real all wooden keyboard, not only with a flimsy wooden layer glued on the side of plastic keys as a fake on later "Natural" Wood keyboards of Yamaha?

#2038705 - 02/24/13 11:05 PM Re: Yamaha flagship Clavinova CLP-990's Natural Keyboard Action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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@trandinhnamanh,

Thanks for the great photos of the keys and action along with the video clip that demonstrates the escapement simulation, below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D62G49_Rws

#2039694 - 02/26/13 04:27 PM Re: Yamaha flagship Clavinova CLP-990's Natural Keyboard Action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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Thanks for the details! Interesting piano.

Unless I'm mistake those are sensors under the keys as well as under the hammers, similar to what's done in the AvantGrands. Cool stuff.

#2046921 - 03/12/13 11:05 AM Re: Yamaha flagship Clavinova CLP-990's Natural Keyboard Action [Re: trandinhnamanh]  
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Does the Yamaha action have escapement?

#2046929 - 03/12/13 11:20 AM Re: Yamaha flagship Clavinova CLP-990's Natural Keyboard Action [Re: debrucey]  
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The Hybrids do

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