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Hi everybody,

I have started to learn Chopin's Waltz Op. 64, No. 2 in C# Minor.
I have two questions:

1- Beside the sheet music, as a reference, I've also chosen to take lessons from this performance, which I found pretty good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9k5jOZ3_w0

How do you rate this pianist? Can I consider it as an authentic reference?


2- I can play Erik Satie's Gnossienne 1~3 pretty well (got acclaim from a couple of pianists), but I found this piece much more difficult. Is it really way more difficult than Gnossiennes? Or maybe it just needs practice?


By the way, I have been playing piano for about 5 years.


I appreciate your help.

Thanks a lot,
Mike

Hello! I'll just deal with the Chopin and leave the Satie comparison to others.


Depends what you mean by "reference." If you mean making sure that you have the notes and the basic rhythms right, it's pretty good (at least for about the first minute, which is how much I listened to). If you mean a guide for how to play the piece -- "taking lessons," as you put it -- no way; it's not real good. I mean, it's OK but, I'd say the player is around low-level intermediate. He does a pretty good job at getting the notes for someone at his level, but that's about it.

BTW I can't imagine how he managed to get ADS on his page, but more power to him.

By taking lessons I didn't mean the notes (because I play based on the sheet). I meant the dynamic and some technical issues like pedaling and finger positioning, etc... Thanks anyway

I figured, but I was trying to be kind to the guy.

It's lousy for that. It's sort of a "student effort," that's all.

What Daviel posted is excellent (of course!), but don't feel you need to copy what she does -- not just because some of what she does is a little eccentric (which it is, and actually I think some parts of it aren't real good but forget that) but because there's an unlimited number of possible good ways to play it.

It's not really bad, but I think there are much better performances than that (also on YouTube), particularly if you want to really learn from it and use it as a model, as you say...

Thanks

So anybody has an answer to my second question? Actually this piece does not look too difficult, but the speed and the fact that it is in C# minor makes it difficult, I think.
Anyway, I'm at the beginning of playing it, but I'm kind of scared

I believe this is the very best waltz Chopin ever wrote. Well, it's certainly my favorite... by FAR! It's much more than a show piece. And that middle section... don't get me started.

I believe it's much harder than the Satie. But try it and see if you can handle it. Do you have a teacher to help you assess situations like these?

This is my favorite rendition:

(Take note of his use of staccatos, and the relaxed middle section. Most people rush this IMO.)

Just be glad it's not in A minor.

Yeah -- and of course a lot of people wouldn't get that.

It's harder to read in C# minor, but easier to play.

It says here that the Gnossiennes are Early Advanced (SMP 8) level, which actually surprises me because I would have judged them much easier than the waltz - probably early intermediate.

All white keys must be easy, right?

ChopinAddict:

Yeah, like you, I would say this waltz is way more difficult than Gnossiennes. This is why I asked.

Let's see what others say!

I think you can do it though. Although I wouldn't have rated the Gnossiennes level 8, this waltz is not extremely difficult. But I think you should first try to play it on your own rather than looking at YouTube, really feel the dynamics and the phrasing yourself etc.

On a very old piano it would be all black keys.

The Chopin is quite a few levels above the Satie both technically and musically. The performance is what I'd call an somewhat average student performance so using it as a model for technique, fingering, or the musical aspects is not ideal although I guess the overhead view of the hands could be helpful for some. For this piece there are many YouTube performances by world class professionals with closeups(not overhead)of the hands, and those might be better models.

I thought there were some less than good fingering choices in the video. I would get a good student edition of this piece that has extensive fingering and pedaling suggestions. This is a piece where there are many possible fingering choices especially on the first page so you need to experiment about which is best for you. You can also find many editions of this piece at IMSLP, and there will be a variety of fingering suggestions in those editions.

For phrasing and dynamics the first thing by far is to carefully follow the markings in the score and not worry about "interpreting". Finally, I think the second and last page(which will probably prove to be the hardest technical challenge) can be played somewhat slower than many professional performances and still sound good. So I wouldn't be overly concerned about matching the typical professional's speed there.

Here's an example of probably a good student edition:
http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Waltzes-Complete-Masterwork-Editions/dp/0739016741

Thanks. That was helpful.

Here's another version:

http://youtu.be/wTSu1jjKpgI

Yeah, I've already watched the great performances like the one by Valentina Lisitsa and especially Horowitz several times. I know they are far better. I just wanted something with an overhead view of the hands

We might be able to help still better if you say what kinds of things you're looking for on that....