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An interesting set of opinions, but without background and methodology, the lists aren't anything but lists.
Well, as long as you're going to comment on it, I'll assume it's a permissible detour on your thread.
I agree with the lack of background, but methodology is really tough with acoustic pianos. There's been some success with digitals because they open themselves more readily to quantifying measurables. You're not stuck on dark, bright, full, thin, deep, and all that stuff.
With acoustic rankings, maybe the best you can hope for is that it's an honest effort and not a sales ploy concocted by an inside interest. Ultimately, you compare it to your own and possibly find some matches, possibly not.
The thing I noticed about this site is that it took on specific models. IOW unlike Fine for example, it didn't stay just at the brand level. It was also willing to reveal some of its shortcomings.....only one sample of a Bosie 130 (unprepped at that) and apologies for not getting to Vienna, apologies to Yamaha for putting up the S and not the CFX, and a sharp divide of opinion on AF rather than any consensus. Those are only examples. There were more.
I sent an email asking for more info on the composition of their ranking panel. I'll post something if they reply.
Anyone interested in pianos like those showing up on the pianoranking lists might find more substance (and, of course, no shortage of opinions) in this blog:
"from the minute I touched this piano it was number one on my list, and there was no number two -- though I played lots of really nice pianos. It was like the "thunderbolt" moment in the novel, The Godfather.
This is exactly what "should happen" when making a purchase: there are many testimonials here by people involving much less suspect makes than Steingraeber.
To me Keith's comments were enjoyable to read as he, as several others here, has across a GREAT NUMBER of top class pianos in his life.
Once these "seasoned travellors" have found something truly special to them, it might be just worth taking it pretty well at face value "accepting the ride"...
Why not simply "enjoy"?
Norbert
Indeed. That was the intent I read into Keith's original post and a lot of the great followup comments consistent with it.
"Don't let the devil fool you - Here comes a dove; Nothing cures like time and love."
This pianoranking site could be something of substance, but without more information it is of little value. Further I like "group rankings" much better than an order that appears to say "first place", "second place", etc.
Even though the author says this is not a strict ranking, it certainly asppears to be just that.
Also, IMHO, the author is not a native english speaker. I only say this because the choice of wording is sometimes awkward (but so is mine occasionally) and the misspellings are simple words that could have been easily proofread.
That is not a very useful website. All the top pianos seem to be "regular", with the top brand being perfectly regular.... (...I know what is meant, but compulsory interpretation and needless ambiguity and are not helpful...)
IMHO, the author is not a native english speaker. I only say this because the choice of wording is sometimes awkward (but so is mine occasionally) and the misspellings are simple words that could have been easily proofread.
Either that or it was slapped together.
My quick 2 cents,
I think from the syntax the original is French, a far bigger curse than not being a native English speaker.
Jurgen,
I took it to mean regulation. But I could be wrong. I don't have experience with piano action laxatives.
This pianoranking site could be something of substance, but without more information it is of little value. Further I like "group rankings" much better than an order that appears to say "first place", "second place", etc.
Even though the author says this is not a strict ranking, it certainly asppears to be just that.
Also, IMHO, the author is not a native english speaker. I only say this because the choice of wording is sometimes awkward (but so is mine occasionally) and the misspellings are simple words that could have been easily proofread.
Either that or it was slapped together.
My quick 2 cents,
Agreed. For the little we all know, these folks could be real piano experts, but their lists purport to be hierarchical with no explanation of the system employed or the people employing it. They may be independent experts, they may be affiliated with some in the industry, or they may be no experts at all -- we just don't know.
In addition to not displaying qualifications or metrics, there's very little explanation of the basis for distinctions among the various pianos described, and the few distinctions drawn are done using language so general and subjective as to convey little information.
Again, these folks may be top-notch, and their blog may develop into a rival for Piano Buyer, but lacking either quantitative or qualitative evaluation factors, it has a ways to go.
Personally, I got a lot more information out of Keith's humorous original post, and from various descriptions others here have posted about different pianos they have acquired or played.
"Don't let the devil fool you - Here comes a dove; Nothing cures like time and love."
If you buy a new Steingraeber, you will regret it. I don't know how else to put this. Consider yourself warned by one who knows.
We received a shipment of new Steingraebers on Wednesday of this week. I can no longer sleep, eat or concentrate.
On Wednesday, we opened a 212 and a 192. After working a 12 hour day, in which most of it was spent doing mind numbing tasks, I made the mistake of sitting down at the 212.
I blinked and 2 hours had gone by. It was close to 11 pm and I didn't care. I hadn't eaten since breakfast and I didn't care. All I wanted to do was play this piano. I was smitten. Bach, Brahms, Mozart, Bartok, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff and more got played and each sounded better than the last. I enjoyed playing the piano. I wanted to practice. I wanted to play. The piano was inspiring me. It was teaching me. It was helping me sound better than I deserved, yet at the same time showing me how very far I had to go. I had thoughts of giving concerts. I was ready to toss it all, find a cave somewhere, and it would just be me and a Steingraeber and I would do nothing but practice, play and compose.
I fell in love with that piano. Seriously. Love. I was so deep in love that I asked that Steingraeber to marry me. I knew I wasn't worthy, but I thought I could become a better man if only that piano would have me.
Well, fortunately for me, it didn't respond to my proposal, because today we finally got around to opening up the 232. I would like to express my response to that piano, but this is a family website. What the heck. HOLY MOTHER @#(*@#(@&#(@&#@(#&@(#&@*&#(@&# how is it possible? That 232 is so good, my head exploded. Literally. That is the only reason I stopped playing. KABOOM. Head exploded. It is some kind of miracle that I can even write this with an exploded head. It shouldn't be possible. I think I am summoning my last bits of strength to warn others, so they don't share the same fate as me.
Please listen. Unless you want to end up wanting to marry a piano, while no longer being able to take care of your normal responsibilities such as concentrating at work and being productive, not to mention completely ignoring your basic human needs such as eating and sleeping, quite possibly ending up living in a cave by yourself with only a Steingraeber piano, and spending what is left of your life with an exploded head, PLEASE DO NOT BUY A STEINGRAEBER PIANO.
heck, it is playing with fire to even try one.
I know for some of you this will fall on deaf ears, but if I can just save one person from my fate, it will all be worth it.
I would write more, but I have to leave. The only hardware store that sells surgical quality duct tape for holding one's skull together is closing soon, and if the rest of my brain falls out, I might drool on the Steingraebers as I play them and that just seems wrong somehow. Although, I suppose that might disuade anyone from buying one of them and taking them from me. Mine! All MINE!!!!!!! MuahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Well, if you have gotten this far, you cannot plead ignorance. Whatever fate you suffer at the hands of a Steingraeber piano is your own fault.
You have been warned.
I like this post, it's funny, and not attacking anyone.
Hmm Do you know why Steingraebers are so uknown in the piano lovers industry? IF they are horribly well made - better then Steinways Faziolic Bossiec etc, so why the are not in big concert halls and CD's used as recorded pianos?
Is it really only the case of marketing? If yes - why they do not do the same what Fazioli is doing- from few years everybody is talking about Fazioli.
To be honest, I know the Steingraeber name from at leat 10 years, but I NEVER RECOGNIZED IT AS TOP-END PIANO MAKER. Just some on of many european piano makers which is putting their pianos on festivals and etc.
So, if they are so damn good, why still so little people know this company, or if they now - why it's not recozniged as the same class as S&S, Bossie, Shigeru etc?
It is recognized in the same class as S&S, Bossie, and a number of others. It is the Shigeru which is not quite there yet. But the Shigeru is a very fine instrument.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
I finally got a chance to play the Steingraeber D-232 that Keith commented on in the original post in this thread.
It's every bit as good as he said.
Just before I stopped by the shop, they had received another D-232 that was even better than the one Keith wrote about. At least, in my opinion, it was a bit better.
There are obviously many different types of fantastic pianos, and what one likes best will be driven by one's personal taste and playing style.
To me, though, I can't imagine I piano I'd like more than that D-232.
Well done, Udo and PianoCraft.
"Don't let the devil fool you - Here comes a dove; Nothing cures like time and love."
If you buy a new Steingraeber, you will regret it. I don't know how else to put this. Consider yourself warned by one who knows.
We received a shipment of new Steingraebers on Wednesday of this week. I can no longer sleep, eat or concentrate.
On Wednesday, we opened a 212 and a 192. After working a 12 hour day, in which most of it was spent doing mind numbing tasks, I made the mistake of sitting down at the 212.
I blinked and 2 hours had gone by. It was close to 11 pm and I didn't care. I hadn't eaten since breakfast and I didn't care. All I wanted to do was play this piano. I was smitten. Bach, Brahms, Mozart, Bartok, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff and more got played and each sounded better than the last. I enjoyed playing the piano. I wanted to practice. I wanted to play. The piano was inspiring me. It was teaching me. It was helping me sound better than I deserved, yet at the same time showing me how very far I had to go. I had thoughts of giving concerts. I was ready to toss it all, find a cave somewhere, and it would just be me and a Steingraeber and I would do nothing but practice, play and compose.
I fell in love with that piano. Seriously. Love. I was so deep in love that I asked that Steingraeber to marry me. I knew I wasn't worthy, but I thought I could become a better man if only that piano would have me.
Well, fortunately for me, it didn't respond to my proposal, because today we finally got around to opening up the 232. I would like to express my response to that piano, but this is a family website. What the heck. HOLY MOTHER @#(*@#(@&#(@&#@(#&@(#&@*&#(@&# how is it possible? That 232 is so good, my head exploded. Literally. That is the only reason I stopped playing. KABOOM. Head exploded. It is some kind of miracle that I can even write this with an exploded head. It shouldn't be possible. I think I am summoning my last bits of strength to warn others, so they don't share the same fate as me.
Please listen. Unless you want to end up wanting to marry a piano, while no longer being able to take care of your normal responsibilities such as concentrating at work and being productive, not to mention completely ignoring your basic human needs such as eating and sleeping, quite possibly ending up living in a cave by yourself with only a Steingraeber piano, and spending what is left of your life with an exploded head, PLEASE DO NOT BUY A STEINGRAEBER PIANO.
heck, it is playing with fire to even try one.
I know for some of you this will fall on deaf ears, but if I can just save one person from my fate, it will all be worth it.
I would write more, but I have to leave. The only hardware store that sells surgical quality duct tape for holding one's skull together is closing soon, and if the rest of my brain falls out, I might drool on the Steingraebers as I play them and that just seems wrong somehow. Although, I suppose that might disuade anyone from buying one of them and taking them from me. Mine! All MINE!!!!!!! MuahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Well, if you have gotten this far, you cannot plead ignorance. Whatever fate you suffer at the hands of a Steingraeber piano is your own fault.
You have been warned.
I like this post, it's funny, and not attacking anyone.
Actually, Keith Kerman is diabolical! He is an evil genious trying to take over the entire piano world!!
I finally got a chance to play the Steingraeber D-232 that Keith commented on in the original post in this thread.
It's every bit as good as he said.
Just before I stopped by the shop, they had received another D-232 that was even better than the one Keith wrote about. At least, in my opinion, it was a bit better.
There are obviously many different types of fantastic pianos, and what one likes best will be driven by one's personal taste and playing style.
To me, though, I can't imagine I piano I'd like more than that D-232.
Well done, Udo and PianoCraft.
Is it better than your Steingraeber D-232? If so, how?
I finally got a chance to play the Steingraeber D-232 that Keith commented on in the original post in this thread. It's every bit as good as he said. Just before I stopped by the shop, they had received another D-232 that was even better than the one Keith wrote about. At least, in my opinion, it was a bit better.
FWIW, these 2 videos are of the Steingraeber 232 that ClsscLib liked so much. The instrument in these videos has sold and is no longer available. The dynamic range in the Scriabin on this recording is quite large, so if you turn it up too much while it is soft ( it starts quite softly) , it might get too loud for you when the music gets to its more powerful moments. For those of you not familiar with this particular piece by Scriabin, you are in for a treat. Such a great piece of music.
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![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/full/15854.png)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/roflmao.gif)
I guess that means that Rich has competition in the quest to become