Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Hurricane Irma & Our Piano Friends!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
43 registered members (alfredo capurso, barbaram, bennevis, Bernhard Stopper, CyberGene, Agent88, 9 invisible), 1,717 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2034190 - 02/16/13 11:08 AM MIDI velocity - increasing volume levels  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 142
EO3 Offline
Full Member
EO3  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 142
Hi,

I'm pretty pretty sure this has been talked about, but again - I know it's possible with some tweaking to increase volume levels by increasing MIDI (for instance, when playing we usually don't reach the max 127 , so we can, depending on each music piece, increase volume to get max levels).

If it's understandable what I'm talking about here, maybe someone can share their experiences in a non-tech savy way about this. And does tweaking with MIDI velocity can also temper with audio file, I mean, will it sound somehow different than the orginal recording (except, obviously, louder).

Thanks. p.s. I'm using Ableton Lite 8 + vintage D and kontakt.

(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

#2034223 - 02/16/13 12:21 PM Re: MIDI velocity - increasing volume levels [Re: EO3]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,385
MacMacMac Offline
5000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,385
North Carolina
To do what you want, you can adjust the velocity curve.
Here's an example: [Linked Image]

#2034227 - 02/16/13 12:35 PM Re: MIDI velocity - increasing volume levels [Re: EO3]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,252
anotherscott Offline
4000 Post Club Member
anotherscott  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,252
Originally Posted by EO3
does tweaking with MIDI velocity can also temper with audio file, I mean, will it sound somehow different than the orginal recording (except, obviously, louder).

Yes, changing MIDI velocity will often change the timbre of the sound. In a piano, for the obvious example, it is common for there to be multiple sampled velocity layers, since a piano key struck with more force is not only louder, but also changes in timbre. So if you alter the velocity of a note from, say, 90 to 100, not only will it be louder, but there is some chance that it will be triggering a different piano sample with slightly different sonic characteristics.

Also, keep in mind that if you alter MIDI velocity this way to get more volume, you are effectively limiting the piano's dynamic range. For example, if you raise 90 to 100, what do you do with 100? Let's say you raise it to 110. And you raise 110 to 120. But what do you do with the notes above that? You'll have to compress them all into a small range, because MIDI can't go higher than 127.

If you simply want to increase the volume of a MIDI program, the best way to do it is to see if you can embed a MIDI volume command (CC 7, with whatever value you want, i.e. 127 for max).

Of course the easiest thing is to just turn up the volume on your playback device... I'm guessing that's not an option here because it is combined with some other signal. In that case, it would be worth seeing if there is some way you can separate the MIDI-generated sound from the rest and put it in its own channel in a mixer. Or maybe, instead of raising the level of the MIDI track, you can find a way to lower the level of whatever other sound(s) you are combining it with, to get them into the balance you want, and then again increases the total volume on your playback device.

#2034239 - 02/16/13 12:55 PM Re: MIDI velocity - increasing volume levels [Re: EO3]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 95
bbent Offline
Full Member
bbent  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 95
CA, USA
EO3,

Your post suggests that you may not appreciate the difference between MIDI volume and velocity. If I'm wrong about that, I apologize and you may ignore my answer. If not, read on:

Velocity relates to how fast you press a key down. It is implemented on MIDI keyboards by measuring the time it takes the key to travel from the top to the bottom of the keystroke. MIDI velocity values range from 0 to 127. MIDI tone generators such as samplers, divide the velocity range into a discrete number of ranges, with each range triggering a different sample set. This is intended to emulate how the tone character changes (e.g., harmonic content) on an AP, depending on how hard the AP key is pressed (that is, loudness AND character).

MIDI volume (CC7), on the other hand, only affects the loudness of the MIDI notes, but does not change the character (e.g. harmonic content) of the sound.

Summing up, if you increase the velocity of a note (or group of notes), they become louder AND the character of the sound changes. If you increase the MIDI volume of the note/notes (or simply turn up the amplification volume), the sound simply becomes louder (but the character remains the same).

I'm not familiar with Abelton, but I'm pretty sure you should be able to scale the velocity OR volume of selected MIDI notes. I use Sonar 8.5, and with that I can scale the velocity OR volume for a track or selected notes very easily. One note of caution regarding scaling velocity on a group of notes. Scaling simply multiplies the velocity of the selected notes by a number you control. Since MIDI velocities are limited to 0 to 127, if you multiple by a number that causes velocity saturation (i.e., attempts to make velocity events become larger than 127), then you will lose the dynamics between the now saturated velocity events (i.e., velocity = 127) and the non-saturated events.

Regarding your question about MIDI velocity editing affecting the audio file, if you were asking if the sound of the velocity edited MIDI would change, then the answer is yes. Remember that the MIDI track serves as input data to drive whatever MIDI tone generator (e.g., sampler) you choose. The output of the selected tone generator may be used to create a separate audio track. Velocity affects volume and character of the sound, while volume affects only the perceived loudness of the sound.

I hope that long-winded explanation helps.


Regards,
Bob

NY Steinway A 1907, FP-7F wi RPU-3
HW: GA-X58A-UD3R, i7-930, 6GB & 2ea WD2002FAEX, 1ea WD1001FALS1TB, UA1000, Yamaha 2.1 HSM80M/HS10W, DPA SMK4061, Mackie LM3204
SW: Win7 Pro x64, Sonar PE 8.5.3, NI Komplete 8 Ult, Ivory Grand Pianos II
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2034765 - 02/17/13 02:20 PM Re: MIDI velocity - increasing volume levels [Re: EO3]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 142
EO3 Offline
Full Member
EO3  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 142
Thanks very much for both responses!

First of all, my intentions of increasing MIDI volume is not for playback, but for recording (it's solo piano, so no other sounds involved). I want to get the levels to get as loud end recording levels as possible (of course, as far as quality allows). For playback I can get good enough volume levels configuring playback like suggested.

So, I get it that I should focus on MIDI volume not on velocity.

But should I try to change MIDI setting in Ableton or in Vintage D/kontakt?
In Vintage D there's probably settings that can do that. For instance, there's option "Midi Controller #7 Volume Range"


Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Casio GP400
by Nordomus. 09/20/17 04:56 AM
Shipping insurance from Canada to Asia
by zanarkanda. 09/20/17 12:31 AM
Voicing Lead Sheets/ Fake Books?
by MacMorrighan. 09/19/17 09:34 PM
Iconic Out of Tune Pianos
by That Guy. 09/19/17 09:08 PM
Do technicians play the piano or just work on them?
by Lakeviewsteve. 09/19/17 08:24 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics181,945
Posts2,658,872
Members88,871
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0