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Originally Posted by adak
Originally Posted by Ed Foote
Originally Posted by adak
Should have gotten a digital. No tuning or maintenance or repairs needed. I know I never need to buy an acoustic. digitals just keep on getting better and better.


Greetings,
A digital is not a piano.


Don't let your emotions blind you from the truth.

Did you also say the same thing about digital cameras 10 years ago?
Hmmmm, What would a digital be called during a power failure? 'Funny looking table? Boat anchor?


David L. Jenson
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One subjective consideration would be the sound you have now. If the piano has punch, clarity, and sustain as it is now, it might not be so bad to keep the original sound board. It'll certainly be less expensive.


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Originally Posted by David Jenson
Originally Posted by adak
Originally Posted by Ed Foote
Originally Posted by adak
Should have gotten a digital. No tuning or maintenance or repairs needed. I know I never need to buy an acoustic. digitals just keep on getting better and better.


Greetings,
A digital is not a piano.


Don't let your emotions blind you from the truth.

Did you also say the same thing about digital cameras 10 years ago?
Hmmmm, What would a digital be called during a power failure? 'Funny looking table? Boat anchor?


If you are trying to be snarky I will let you know you can buy something called a UPS. They will run you about $50 and when the power goes out you can still play your piano all you want.

Last edited by adak; 02/15/13 12:16 AM.

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Originally Posted by adak
Originally Posted by David Jenson
Originally Posted by adak
Originally Posted by Ed Foote
Originally Posted by adak
Should have gotten a digital. No tuning or maintenance or repairs needed. I know I never need to buy an acoustic. digitals just keep on getting better and better.


Greetings,
A digital is not a piano.


Don't let your emotions blind you from the truth.

Did you also say the same thing about digital cameras 10 years ago?
Hmmmm, What would a digital be called during a power failure? 'Funny looking table? Boat anchor?


If you are trying to be snarky I will let you know you can buy something called a UPS. They will run you about $30 and when they power goes out you can still play your piano all you want.


You're the one who is suggesting that a digital piano can compete with a Boesendorfer Imperial..... confused

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Originally Posted by BoseEric
If you have the soundboard replaced by anyone other than the factory, you will probably have a very nice, very large piano but you won't really have a Bosendorfer any more. If having a true Bosendorfer is important to you, I would explore every possibility to keep the current board (and bridges). If that is not reasonable, then consider replacement by the factory. Boy, that will be unbelievably expensive but you will still have a true Bosendorfer.


You're joking, right?

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Originally Posted by adak
Originally Posted by Ed Foote
Originally Posted by adak
Should have gotten a digital. No tuning or maintenance or repairs needed. I know I never need to buy an acoustic. digitals just keep on getting better and better.


Greetings,
A digital is not a piano.


Don't let your emotions blind you from the truth.

Did you also say the same thing about digital cameras 10 years ago?
I think you are on the wrong forum.


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Originally Posted by Supply
Originally Posted by adak
Originally Posted by Ed Foote
Originally Posted by adak
Should have gotten a digital. No tuning or maintenance or repairs needed. I know I never need to buy an acoustic. digitals just keep on getting better and better.


Greetings,
A digital is not a piano.


Don't let your emotions blind you from the truth.

Did you also say the same thing about digital cameras 10 years ago?
I think you are on the wrong forum.
My thoughts exactly. Someone who's contemplating repairs of this magnitude will certainly not have any interest in switching to a digital approximation of a real piano.

This was a tread hijacking, and it wasn't nearly as sidesplittingly funny as my digressions are! laugh


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Originally Posted by beethoven986
Originally Posted by BoseEric
If you have the soundboard replaced by anyone other than the factory, you will probably have a very nice, very large piano but you won't really have a Bosendorfer any more. If having a true Bosendorfer is important to you, I would explore every possibility to keep the current board (and bridges). If that is not reasonable, then consider replacement by the factory. Boy, that will be unbelievably expensive but you will still have a true Bosendorfer.


You're joking, right?


A Bosendorfer Sound Board is not the same as most of the others for several reasons.

Unless a rebuilder is specifically familiar with this installation, I might tend to agree with Eric.


"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Mark Twain

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A digital piano is not the same as an acoustic for the person playing it and for the small nuances of control on tone. But sampled sounds on the better DP's are virtually exact "recordings" of acoustics, a single note or chord cannot be distinguished between the two on a blind test....period.

(David Jensen)..."Hmmmm, What would a digital be called during a power failure? 'Funny looking table? Boat anchor?"

Mine would be called a digital piano... it has batteries in it.

On the other hand, what would your 700 lb piano be called if you wanted to haul it out a couple hundred yards into the woods for a music foray with freinds? It would be called a hernia.

Last edited by Emmery; 02/15/13 12:33 PM.

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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
I believe you are unhappy with how the tone has changed since the move to NV-if I remember your earlier post correctly.

Do not worry abou rapidly increasing the humidity to the 45% level. The piano will react in three days.

Has the tone improved with the increase in humidity?


You're correct Ed, the tone has changed dramatically since I first got the piano in May of last year. I placed a large humidifier a week ago in the piano room (large living room - 20 x 16 sq ft) and I've noticed the tone has improved a little bit, it sounds to me like the sustain has gotten better and the sound has gotten more polished, the differences are small but I can hear them, the touch is the same, except the keys are now a bit "claky", on my next service I'll have David regulate the action, it might have gotten off a bit.

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Originally Posted by Emmery
A digital piano is not the same as an acoustic for the person playing it and for the small nuances of control on tone. But sampled sounds on the better DP's are virtually exact "recordings" of acoustics, a single note or chord cannot be distinguished between the two on a blind test....period.

(David Jensen)..."Hmmmm, What would a digital be called during a power failure? 'Funny looking table? Boat anchor?"

Mine would be called a digital piano... it has batteries in it.

On the other hand, what would your 700 lb piano be called if you wanted to haul it out a couple hundred yards into the woods for a music foray with freinds? It would be called a hernia.


You guys are too funny, but you got a point there. I personally own a Korg M3 and I like it, but in piano sound and feel it would never replace by Imperial, it's just how it is, I love it for the things it can do (and places it can go) but when it comes to true piano performance, I dare say no "imitation" will ever come close to the original (considering many aspects not only sound because I know you can use samples).

Last edited by Jorge Andrade; 02/15/13 01:24 PM.
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Originally Posted by David Jenson
One subjective consideration would be the sound you have now. If the piano has punch, clarity, and sustain as it is now, it might not be so bad to keep the original sound board. It'll certainly be less expensive.


I believe other than lose energy in the bass area the sound is pretty ok, what I really need to do is corner up another Imperial owner and do a 'test drive', I know not all pianos are created equal but Boseys should have some particular characteristics that would carry over from one piano to another, I've played a few Imperials years ago (like almost 10) so it's hard to form an opinion now by only considering my own piano.

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Originally Posted by David, Las Vegas
Hi Jorge,
If it were my instrument and I knew the recent history (which I do) I would start with some cost effective measures. You said that your installing a full room humidifier. I would let the room acclimate to the higher humidity and, over 4 to 6 months, measure soundboard responses by measuring any effect on the crown, soundboard crack size, increased (or not) sustain etc. If findings are positive but minimal I would install the large Dampp Chaser system to enhance the local improvements. If no improvements are measured with humidity introduction than I would shim the soundboard. I have had mild but positive results improving crown in trouble areas by slightly wedging the s-board from the bottom which opens the crack slightly more, make the shim repair, let the glue dry and cure (2 days), remove the wedges and inspect for crown improvement. The Bosey has a thick panel so I'm not sure if results will be dramatic but worth a try. I normally would restring doing this procedure but moving the existing music wire out of the way is a budget option. At least with these methods 10's of thousands of dollars are kept in the bank until repair scenarios reveal their worth.


Well mister, there's some homework for you on my next service call then. smile

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Originally Posted by Larry Buck
Originally Posted by beethoven986
Originally Posted by BoseEric
If you have the soundboard replaced by anyone other than the factory, you will probably have a very nice, very large piano but you won't really have a Bosendorfer any more. If having a true Bosendorfer is important to you, I would explore every possibility to keep the current board (and bridges). If that is not reasonable, then consider replacement by the factory. Boy, that will be unbelievably expensive but you will still have a true Bosendorfer.


You're joking, right?


A Bosendorfer Sound Board is not the same as most of the others for several reasons.

Unless a rebuilder is specifically familiar with this installation, I might tend to agree with Eric.


I'd like to think that a qualified rebuilder, such as yourself, would be able to handle this.

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Originally Posted by adak
Should have gotten a digital. No tuning or maintenance or repairs needed. I know I never need to buy an acoustic. digitals just keep on getting better and better.

And don't they make pianos with carbon fiber soundboards nowadays?


There's a company in England that does that, however, shipping my piano to England to have that kind of work done is out of my budget. Also, as it was expressed here before if I replace the soundboard then I guess it's not considered a Bosendorfer anymore, I mean, that right there is the root of my despair, that's exactly the reason why I started this thread. I honestly don't think that the soundboard alone is what makes a Bosendorfer - otherwise we could theoretically remove the soundboard from a Bosendorfer and put it into a lesser quality piano and it would become a Bosendorfer? What about the strings, can I call it a Bosey if I replace the strings? Gosh, I hate the grey areas!!!

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I'm trying to post 3 pictures of the soundboard cracks but all I get is the URL option, can't I just embed the pics here?

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Originally Posted by Jorge Andrade
I believe other than lose energy in the bass area the sound is pretty ok, what I really need to do is corner up another Imperial owner and do a 'test drive', I know not all pianos are created equal but Boseys should have some particular characteristics that would carry over from one piano to another, I've played a few Imperials years ago (like almost 10) so it's hard to form an opinion now by only considering my own piano.


That makes sense.

You might consider making recordings and doing some spectral analysis. Your ear may be sufficient but recordings and numbers allow for objective review. As you may know, Richard Dain, who fitted the carbon fibre soundboard to a Bosendorfer, included some Bosendorfer spectrograms in this paper.

It might be worth asking about Bosendorfer soundboard repairs on the German forum (Clavio).


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Originally Posted by Monaco
Steinway did an experiment where they created gaps in a soundboard and found that it did not affect the sound. Shimming the soundboard is therefore a cosmetic measure and has no effect on the performance of the piano.

Do you have a reference for this?

ddf


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Originally Posted by Del
Originally Posted by Monaco
Steinway did an experiment where they created gaps in a soundboard and found that it did not affect the sound. Shimming the soundboard is therefore a cosmetic measure and has no effect on the performance of the piano.

Do you have a reference for this?

ddf


Steinway quotes W B White on their website for this matter.

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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson
Originally Posted by Del
Originally Posted by Monaco
Steinway did an experiment where they created gaps in a soundboard and found that it did not affect the sound. Shimming the soundboard is therefore a cosmetic measure and has no effect on the performance of the piano.

Do you have a reference for this?

ddf


Steinway quotes W B White on their website for this matter.

I suspected this claim would be based on that paper; it has long been cited as a justification for soundboard cracks. But its basic premise has been discredited for decades—cracks are not the issue, loss of compression is the issue.

No actual experiments were ever conducted that I am aware of but, like other mainstays of piano mythology, this one seems to keep on growing. I didn't know it was still being used.

ddf


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