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Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: debrucey] #2033610
02/15/13 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by debrucey
Every male flautist I know is gay, lol. Mind you, I suppose I'd be more likely to know the gay ones than the straight ones.


With regards to knowing gay flautists the first question that springs to mind is: in the Biblical sense?

I actually am friends with a male flautist (one who even builds his own instruments mind you) who is not gay. Of course he is perhaps compensated by another woman I studied with who is a lesbian flautist.



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Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB] #2033624
02/15/13 10:56 AM
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Well, to my knowledge I don't think I've ever 'known' a straight flautist haha

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB] #2033628
02/15/13 11:00 AM
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not somewhere over the rainbow
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Izaldu, it's definitely worth seeing gergiev for that much money. What did they play?



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Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Old Man] #2033631
02/15/13 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Man

We Americans toss the word "liberty" around a lot. But I'm not sure how much liberty we really have if you cannot pursue what you love without an "ample amount of 'intestinal fortitude'". How one's private bedroom activity becomes the world's business is beyond comprehension.


If you really think about it, the world's heterosexual behavior has long been the 'world's business'. You don't think about it because it's ubiquitous.

Us gay folk are just beginning to catch up to the mainstream, and that's discomforting for the majority.

When I visit a place like Wilton Manors, Florida (US) which is GAY GAY GAY... and see real estate ads with two men holding hands looking at a backyard pool, or eat in a restaurant where everyone else around me can be assumed to be gay without much room for error, that is a paradigm shift for me as a resident of south central Kentucky, where radio, TV, billboards, office conversation... EVERYTHING (pretty much) has a heterosexual spin to it.

I see young people holding hands, wedding rings, wedding announcement, bridal showers, suggestive coffee advertisement, hugs as couples part, all the love songs bombarding us from the radio, not to mention the E.D. ads - as the grizzled man in the pickup truck pulls into the driveway and greets his blushing and coy bride - 'this is your time of life... BE READY!!

well, you would think they would be ashamed shoving that down my throat (see? does that statement make you feel odd somehow?)

I can visit a university music department and expect (well, these days yes, not so much in the 70's) that my sexuality, while not the majority, is certainly not uncomfortable (or, barring comfort, unfamiliar) for the folks around me.

As a black belt visiting a martial arts dojo, not quite so much. :-)

There's a reason I continue to study piano but do not continue to pursue Karate**, even though I love them both.

As gayness becomes more of a non-issue, I won't be surprised when more heterosexual males become pianists, or at least 'piano-literate'.

Forrest

**well, the consequences of poor technique in Karate are a bit more dramatic... there IS that. :-)



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Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: debrucey] #2033651
02/15/13 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by debrucey
Well, to my knowledge I don't think I've ever 'known' a straight flautist haha


LOL

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Forrest Halford] #2033681
02/15/13 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by woodog
As gayness becomes more of a non-issue, I won't be surprised when more heterosexual males become pianists, or at least 'piano-literate'.


Well, well, now we are finally back full circle to some of the assumptions surrounding the initial question on the thread.

I know quite a few male pianists in and around Amsterdam, which is about as non-homophobic of a place as you can get in Europe. I know classical pianists, jazz pianists, cocktail bar pianists, good pianists, bad pianists, professionals, amateurs, students, adult returners, adult beginners, conservatory students, teachers, retired teachers, young, old, ...

The homosexuals are definitely in the minority in my unscientific sample although perhaps slightly above the estimated percentages for the population as a whole.

I don't think that there is anything gay about the piano.

I think that generalized labeling of male pianists as gay says more about the person doing the labeling and the cultural bias that they are immersed in. So, yes, if the piano were not dying out in general, I would agree with you that as cultural attitudes of gay=evil and classical piano = gay change that more straight boys might take up the piano. I think that most of them will will just buy guitar hero instead (or maybe even a real guitar).

I do still think that it is a valid question why so many extraordinarily successful master pianists in the 20th century were gay. The answer seems to have been given by Kreisler: be because they were allowed to be (for many of the early ones, as long as they put on a charade or remained largely in the closet).

What a wonderful world when everyone would be allowed to choose in freedom and to do what he or she is talented and passionate about while still being able to be honest about and true to theselves.

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Old Man] #2033736
02/15/13 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Man
We Americans toss the word "liberty" around a lot. But I'm not sure how much liberty we really have if you cannot pursue what you love without an "ample amount of 'intestinal fortitude'". How one's private bedroom activity becomes the world's business is beyond comprehension.


Probably because it's no longer primarily confined to the bedroom - and more and more heterosexual folk are being challenged to co-exist with the gay community in their daily lives. Sadly, human nature being what it is, some deal well with this - and others don't.

As for pursuing the things you love - I say "go for it."


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Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney] #2033737
02/15/13 02:16 PM
02/15/13 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
I don't think that there is anything gay about the piano.

I think that generalized labeling of male pianists as gay says more about the person doing the labeling and the cultural bias that they are immersed in.....

What a wonderful world when everyone would be allowed to choose in freedom and to do what he or she is talented and passionate about while still being able to be honest about and true to themselves.


Well said !!!!! thumb


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Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Carey] #2033759
02/15/13 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by Old Man
We Americans toss the word "liberty" around a lot. But I'm not sure how much liberty we really have if you cannot pursue what you love without an "ample amount of 'intestinal fortitude'". How one's private bedroom activity becomes the world's business is beyond comprehension.


Probably because it's no longer primarily confined to the bedroom - and more and more heterosexual folk are being challenged to co-exist with the gay community in their daily lives. Sadly, human nature being what it is, some deal well with this - and others don't.


As for pursuing the things you love - I say "go for it."


I think it also has to do with the fact that a lot of the gay community has a "We're gay and you better like it!" sort of mentality and come across very loud-mouthed and pushy.

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB] #2033761
02/15/13 03:08 PM
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I doubt all of them are like that. There's usually a loud, hardline minority in every group of people.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney] #2033807
02/15/13 04:50 PM
02/15/13 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney


What a wonderful world when everyone would be allowed to choose in freedom and to do what he or she is talented and passionate about while still being able to be honest about and true to theselves.


Everyone is free to choose and to be, in my opinion.

As far as homosexuality goes and as with many other things in life, what is most difficult is inside a person, not what other people think of you or how they react. Interior conflict is to a great extent unavoidable, it is through such episodes that one grows.

There is always an element of choice, one chooses one way over another, grosso modo bisexuality or homosexuality; but both options are part of human nature and one is necessarily repressing certain feelings or desires to give a fuller being to others. Sexuality is the stage for very strong feelings, from the earliest age on.

Everyone is free to choose and to be, but in life you have to have cojones and know how to assume your choices and your acts.

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: landorrano] #2033855
02/15/13 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by landorrano
As far as homosexuality goes and as with many other things in life, what is most difficult is inside a person, not what other people think of you or how they react. Interior conflict is to a great extent unavoidable, it is through such episodes that one grows.

Well, yes, what happens inside is important. On the other hand, if you are being excluded, assaulted, discriminated against, shunned, or murdered simply because of who you are, you might think that those things are more difficult than your internal thoughts for the day.
Originally Posted by landorrano

There is always an element of choice, one chooses one way over another, grosso modo bisexuality or homosexuality; but both options are part of human nature and one is necessarily repressing certain feelings or desires to give a fuller being to others. Sexuality is the stage for very strong feelings, from the earliest age on.

Everyone is free to choose and to be, but in life you have to have cojones and know how to assume your choices and your acts.


Well, I certainly can't argue with cojones helping with life, although at least half of the human race needs to cope with an alternative, don't they? And, honestly, testosterone can sometimes be more trouble than it is worth.

In terms of freely choosing, I was referring to whether or not one could choose to study the piano and still be true to your personal identity, not whether one could choose one's sexual orientation.

It would be very interesting to hear you or Silverwood Pianos or one of the other contributors to this thread share how you chose your sexuality...

One can only assume that you are naturally attracted equally to both sexes...Did you then make a list of 'pros' and 'cons'? Did you "date" across the spectrum and compare notes? Very curious to hear about your process... I'm sure I am not alone in my eagerness to hear all about it as I have yet to meet anyone who "chose" their sexuality.

Please enlighten us!

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney] #2033860
02/15/13 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney


It would be very interesting to hear you or Silverwood Pianos or one of the other contributors to this thread share how you chose your sexuality...

I have yet to meet anyone who "chose" their sexuality.

Please enlighten us!


If that would be interesting to you cheers but that will have to be on another forum!

As for choosing their sexuality, that is to say, straight or gay, in my opinion all human beings do.

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: landorrano] #2033864
02/15/13 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by theJourney


It would be very interesting to hear you or Silverwood Pianos or one of the other contributors to this thread share how you chose your sexuality...

I have yet to meet anyone who "chose" their sexuality.

Please enlighten us!


If that would be interesting to you cheers but that will have to be on another forum!

As for choosing their sexuality, that is to say, straight or gay, in my opinion all human beings do.


Well, I respect your opinion. However, your opinion seems to be in direct opposition to both the objective, hard science on the subject as well as the personal experience of millions (billions?) of other human beings...

You are indeed special!

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney] #2033866
02/15/13 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
However, your opinion seems to be in direct opposition to both the objective, hard science on the subject as well as the personal experience of millions (billions?) of other human beings...


Hard science of sexuality? That's either a contradiction ... or a pun !

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: landorrano] #2033871
02/15/13 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by landorrano
As for choosing their sexuality, that is to say, straight or gay, in my opinion all human beings do.


No.

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB] #2033872
02/15/13 06:56 PM
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There have been more developments in our objective understanding of the brain and human beings' in utero development in the past +/- 48 months than in the entire history of the world. And, unless you believe in speculative bronze age myths, fairy tales or magic, you must admit that you, including your sexuality, are your brain and body.

We all carry biases within us. Fortunately, however, the lights are gradually coming on and we don't have to live by superstition and false beliefs anymore...unless we choose to.

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB] #2033873
02/15/13 06:58 PM
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When there is evidence bearing on a subject, personal opinion is not of interest.

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney] #2033875
02/15/13 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
There have been more developments in our objective understanding of the brain and human beings' in utero development in the past +/- 48 months than in the entire history of the world. And, unless you believe in speculative bronze age myths, fairy tales or magic, you must admit that you, including your sexuality, are your brain and body.

We all carry biases within us. Fortunately, however, the lights are gradually coming on and we don't have to live by superstition and false beliefs anymore...unless we choose to.


lol...

Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney] #2033878
02/15/13 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by theJourney
you must admit that you, including your sexuality, are your brain and body.


You, including your brain and your body (and your piano!) are your sexuality.


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