Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Hurricane Irma & Our Piano Friends!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Tuning a Piano
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
78 registered members (accordeur, Beakybird, ando, Andrei Kuznetsov, anotherscott, 18 invisible), 1,750 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2032136 - 02/12/13 10:37 PM Anyone familiar with Theory?  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 27
Itsgotta Offline
Full Member
Itsgotta  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 27
I have a song I wrote and at one part it uses the following chords

B Major, E minor, C major, G major

When trying to determine the key of this song, I can only come up with E minor but from researching that doesn't contain a B major chord. (though all the notes of a B major are part of the e minor scale) As you can tell, I'm a beginner when it comes to theory.

These chords sound good to my ears but is it "musically unsound?"

I'm not familiar with music theory, though I'd like to be, I'm hoping someone can help me with this specific question.

Last edited by Itsgotta; 02/12/13 10:44 PM.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2032194 - 02/13/13 01:07 AM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 235
jawhitti Offline
Full Member
jawhitti  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 235
All of these chords are present in the E harmonic minor scale, which is a very common classical mode. Your question however should be redirected to the player forum or adult beginner forum. This forum is aimed more at buying, selling and maintaining pianos.

#2032204 - 02/13/13 01:30 AM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,505
Nikolas Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Nikolas  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,505
UK
Yes, this is not the right forum, but in the meantime...

It IS the E harmonic minor scale. The E harmonic minor scale is the one we use to get the harmonies (duh!) out in classical music. And the harmonic scale, has the 7th note (the D) augmented a semitone (from D to D#), so this is why you get a B major rather than a B minor...

#2032581 - 02/13/13 05:52 PM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 22
morrisonpiano Offline
Full Member
morrisonpiano  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 22
Sorry--no. G Major is not part of the harmonic E minor scale (the third degree of the harmonic minor is an augmented chord). If you have a G major and a B major in the same song section, I would be looking for a melodic minor (will be B major ascending, but G major descending).

Bob

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2032910 - 02/14/13 10:22 AM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: morrisonpiano]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,284
Steve Chandler Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Steve Chandler  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,284
Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted by morrisonpiano
Sorry--no. G Major is not part of the harmonic E minor scale (the third degree of the harmonic minor is an augmented chord). If you have a G major and a B major in the same song section, I would be looking for a melodic minor (will be B major ascending, but G major descending).

Bob

Whether one uses the harmonic minor or natural or melodic minor is determined by the chord progression of the moment. All are forms of the minor scale. G major has an important function in the key of E minor that of relative major. So to say a G major chord doesn't exist in the E harmonic minor scale, while correct, ignores the fact that you wouldn't normally play a harmonic minor scale while playing a g major chord in the key of E minor. B or it's equivalent B7 serves as the dominant of E minor by incorporating the leading tone (D#) which is available in the harmonic or ascending melodic minor scales. A G chord would then cause a player to shift to natural minor or the descending form of the melodic minor scale.

#2032940 - 02/14/13 11:36 AM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,919
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Chris H.  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,919
UK.
The thing about minor keys is that the accidentals found in the harmonic or melodic forms of the scale may or may not be used. Although chord V in a minor key is usually major because of the raised 7th in the harmonic scale.

Sounds to me like you are in E minor.

Think of a song like 'The House of the Rising Sun'...

E minor, G Major, A Major, C Major
E minor, G Major, B Major........


Pianist and piano teacher.
#2032968 - 02/14/13 12:10 PM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 27
Itsgotta Offline
Full Member
Itsgotta  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 27
Well now I'm confused. Seems to be a dispute here of which key it is in. On another note, where would you recommend a beginner to start learning about theory?

#2032980 - 02/14/13 12:25 PM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 22
morrisonpiano Offline
Full Member
morrisonpiano  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Itsgotta
Well now I'm confused. Seems to be a dispute here of which key it is in. On another note, where would you recommend a beginner to start learning about theory?


I would recommend a teacher if you have the funds. You can also learn about this online--it's a huge subject and as you can see, can get very complex and technical. While composing can be done by ear well, I think good musicians will strive to accurately understand the theory and notation.

People can do all kinds of things within this key such as passing chords, secondary dominants, non-harmonic tones, progressions that will alter the strict key, and so on, but there should be no dispute that notationally the only possible standard key that will fit those chords you list is the melodic E minor key.

Bob

#2033068 - 02/14/13 03:11 PM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: morrisonpiano]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,284
Steve Chandler Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Steve Chandler  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,284
Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted by morrisonpiano
but there should be no dispute that notationally the only possible standard key that will fit those chords you list is the melodic E minor key.

As I tried to make clear the key is e minor but the scale varies by what the chord is at the moment. You can say the melody determines the chord or the chord determines the melody, but the scale used (the melody) needs to match the chord in the accompaniment. My point is there is no such thing as the melodic E minor key. The melodic minor scale can be used depending on the melodic motion and underlying harmony, but the key doesn't vary based on what scale is being used. Sorry don't mean to get technical, but wanted to clear up a potential misunderstanding.

#2033074 - 02/14/13 03:32 PM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,919
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Chris H.  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,919
UK.
Originally Posted by Itsgotta
Well now I'm confused. Seems to be a dispute here of which key it is in. On another note, where would you recommend a beginner to start learning about theory?


What chord do you start with, and more importantly finish with? Nearly all music will resolve to its home key in the end.


Pianist and piano teacher.
#2033085 - 02/14/13 03:56 PM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 672
Kurtmen Offline
500 Post Club Member
Kurtmen  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 672
San Mateo, CA
I'm going to speculate a bit here.
I assumed you are starting your progression from a B maj in a root position, then 2nd inver. Emin, then C major in root position then the questionable chord "G major". You are in the key of E minor and in reality you are placing an E min chord and you are adding a 7 while leaving the root out, this is why harmonically works, in a way you are resolving in the right key. (IMO it is not a G major)(You probably have the root in the melody)

Play all the chords in root position listen and pay attention to G major, play it again but replace it with E min. See which one works better with your melody.

Last edited by Kurtmen; 02/14/13 03:57 PM.

San Mateo Piano
Kawai Piano Dealer San Francisco Bay Area
www.sanmateopiano.com
#2034203 - 02/16/13 11:33 AM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 504
Zeno Wood Offline
500 Post Club Member
Zeno Wood  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 504
Brooklyn, NY
Knowing some of the chords in a song without knowing what order they're played, context, etc etc. doesn't enable us to make the call. Why don't you post a link to a recording of it?


Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College
#2036138 - 02/19/13 11:39 PM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,604
Dave B Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Dave B  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,604
Philadelphia area
its a traditional e minor chord progression.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
#2036647 - 02/20/13 11:56 PM Re: Anyone familiar with Theory? [Re: Itsgotta]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 25
Okanagan Musician Offline
Full Member
Okanagan Musician  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 25
British Columbia, Canada
4 chords at any one particular point of a song can't really on its own determine the key, unless they are the only 4 chords in the song.

It would be helpful if you posted the chord structure of the entire piece to provide some context (what comes before/after the part you posted, as well as beginning and ending progressions of the piece).

Or better yet, post a recording of the piece in question...would love to hear it!


What's the #1 Secret to learning any song on the piano? Discover how to save time practicing!

http://www.takeonlinepianolessons.com


Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
removing key cover on Mason Hamlin model 50
by jbclem. 09/24/17 08:10 PM
Women composers I admire
by GillesJ. 09/24/17 08:08 PM
Hailun H-5 Piano opinion
by DesertFox. 09/24/17 07:57 PM
Grotrian Studio 118
by plumpfingers. 09/24/17 07:03 PM
What are you playing at the moment ?
by Moo :). 09/24/17 06:46 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,010
Posts2,659,909
Members88,886
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0