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Joined: Feb 2013
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Hi Everyone, New to the forum. Just registered as I need some help. I'm about to start gigging and I'm in the market for a digital piano that isn't too hard to transport weight-wise. I have a budget of around £2000. At home i currently use Logic Pro and I'm happy with the VST piano sounds etc that I get from it. I have a old Yamaha YDP 113 which I really like the feel of, and as I use it as a midi controller, it's ideal. HOWEVER, it's so heavy, it's not practical to carry to gigs, and I don't want to bring my home computer (iMac) every time I do a gig either. SO, my question for anyone reading is.... Do I go for the Nord Piano2 with all the sounds built in, OR, my other choice is to get a Macbook with Logic Pro and get myself a more transportable midi keyboard? Any advice would be welcomed. Thanks in advance!
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I would say either the Nord Piano 2 or a MacBook Pro/Casio PX-5S would work well. The nice thing about the NP2 is everything is all in one, everything is seamless operationally, and the Nords are updated frequently whether through software or all new samples. With the NP2 you ave free access to over a thousand sounds in the Nord Piano Library and Nord Sample Library, and more samples added what seems to be every month. The NP2 represents a strong case for a gigging piano/eyboard player. The one disadvantage (relatively speaking) of the NP2 is no B3 organ sounds or samples.
Studiologic Numa X Piano GT with Native Instruments Noire
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I had a similar dilemma, but already owned a decent laptop, so controller + software seemed more economical.
I went with a yamaha CP33 as controller (I wanted to have some built-in sounds as insurance against computer failure during a gig) and got the galaxy vintage D for Kontakt player.
The Vintage D sounded (and sounds) great through headphones, and pretty good by myself through a powered PA speaker. But the first time I tried it with a band it didn't cut well at all so I went with the CP33 sounds instead. I've been gigging sans laptop since, even though the cp33 AP sounds are nothing to write home about.
On the other hand, I recently tried a great Rhodes EP VST (Neo-Soul Keys) in a band rehearsal for the first time and it was fantastic, so I may be gigging with laptop in the near future.
Since you would be spending the same either way, the NP2 seems like much more of a sure thing. (Unless you also really want a new MacBook!)
Last edited by Dave Number 4; 02/11/13 01:16 PM. Reason: run-on sentences
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Thanks Zac and Dave. I really am in a dilemma! I've never had £2000 to spend before on a piano and probably never will again, so I want to make the right decision! I've got my first gig for 7 years at the beginning of April so I feel like I need to sort something soon, so I can get used to what ever set up I choose. I thought I always wanted a Nord Piano(2). I got to try one at the weekend for a short time, and while it's obviously good, I spent my time trying to get a similar sound to the Steinway + a 'touch' of rhodes that I use at home through logic. That got me thinking, should I be best taking the sounds from logic pro that I'm happy with and using them in a gig situation. I haven't got a laptop (only the house iMac) so I would have to invest in a Macbook Pro. Maybe that should be the major investment? As I say, I've been happy using my old yamaha YDP113 (hammer action, weighted keys) as a midi controller. So if I went down the cheaper piano/ laptop + Logic, I'd be looking for something £700 or under. I've just been reading about a few, including;
Yamaha P105 Yamaha P35 Yamaha P155 Casio Px150 Roland A88
I'm inclined to agree with Dave, it might be good to have a half decent piano sound built in case of a mac failure, so perhaps midi only isn't the best option. I still like the weighted feel of my Yamaha, so feel is important, as is a movable weight. (My old Yamaha is 36kg!) I wonder does anyone reading this use a Mac and Logic sounds (or Mainstage). Perhaps a macbook and logic gives me more options in future than the nord piano 2? Any more thoughts anyone? Thanks.
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Will your gig(s) be in a group situation? If so, have you (or can you) arrange to drag your iMac and controller to a rehearsal, or drag the other folks to your house, and see how it feels and sounds with the band?
36 kgs is really heavy! You can definitely have a fully-weighted-feeling keyboard that weighs a lot less.
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It's a solo outing, so you hear everything! Used to be in a very quiet 8 piece, now going it alone. Possibly one other person playing flute/clarinet. It's pretty quiet music. Would like to hear from anyone who uses logic as their bank of instruments and what piano they use as a controller. I sound like I'm talking myself out of the nord piano don't I?!
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Try it out, with rented or borrowed instruments. A Yamaha GH action might already do the trick on a budget (as in CP33 or CP50), or the new Kawai VPC1 (but that's quite heavy already). Concerning Nord Piano 2: Go and try it as well.
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
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Wow that Kawai looks beautiful. But it's just too heavy for gigs. Would look great at home if it didn't have to keep moving. I'm wondering about this yamaha p105?. People talk highly about the Casio px... too, but I need to get over the fact that it's a Casio to consider that!
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P35, P95, P105 all share the same GHS action. Fairly lightweight, not for me. But if you go this way, save your bucks and get the P35 for your purposes.
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
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I'll have to try and find those Yamaha's in a shop and see how they feel. The cp33 looks good too. Have you tried one Maurus? I'm not really into lightweight keys either.
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Puzzled, I think youre on the right track for gigging, personally I wouldn't substitute the NP2 for anything else out there if portability, sounds and ease of performance are important. I tried the software/midi board combo and it can be a pain, its great if you're at home jamming and can get in to edit things that dont sound right or feel right but if you're using this for gigging, its impossible to find a better board, the only real complaint people have is the key action but something has to be sacrificed when you want something lightweight, let it be said though that many people like its action.
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Origin, I think I'll go back and have another play with the Nord for sure, but the keys felt quite light in weight compared to the Yamaha fully weighted that I'm used to. When I sit down at home to write, I'm mainly using one sound! (The Steinway grand with a tiny layer of Rhodes and even tinier touch of synth). I did really think I wanted the nord piano, but I'm afraid I'll be searching for the sounds I've been writing with from logic. That's what made me start thinking about the midi keyboard/ laptop route. It might be a better workflow, so to speak. I'm still so confused, there's so many choices! :-0
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Puzzled I have an old Yamaha P250 (the thing is built like an 80 lb tank and has one of the heaviest actions of any DP i've ever played -- and it's quite a bit heavier than my parent's old upright). When I got my Nord stage 2 I couldn't believe how light the action felt in comparison. It felt, I dunno, insubstantial to me to me at first. Well, I happened to go without playing my yamaha for a couple of months, and I couldn't believe how heavy the action felt when I got back to it. It felt as "wrong" to me as the nord did when I first got it. If you love making music with your keyboard, I think you'll adapt to the action, you may even come to enjoy it. I did.
Now I actually prefer the action of the Nord. I find that though it's lighter, it connects to the sound beautifully. Plus, I had a hand injury (work related not piano related) a couple of years ago that forced me to lay off playing for almost a year so psychologically I feel like the lighter action is stressing my previously injured hand less. So the Nord may be worth giving a chance.
P.S. Nothing would stop you from using the Nord Piano with Logic or any DAW that you find yourself drawn to.
Nord Stage 2 HA88 Roland RD800
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Thanks Fizikisto. Interesting to read your thoughts on the Nord piano 2. I think I'm going to go and have another good play of it tomorrow. In my head, the keys are all light and plasticky, but it might surprise me to have a go for a second time. Like you say, I can always use the nord with logic at home to access sounds, I just hope I could replicate the sounds I like in the logic instruments on the Nord when I play live.
I was thinking earlier about if I did go down the laptop/ midi route, what is the regular way of feeding this to the venue's pa? Is it just the Macbook Pro's headphone socket?
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Puzzled, I wouldn't use the headphone jack. You'd probably want to get a USB Audio interface box (basically an external sound card that has a variety of audio inputs and outputs) to go with your laptop. Ideally it will be something with a low latency, something that supports ASIO drivers.
warm regards
Nord Stage 2 HA88 Roland RD800
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Dave, interesting to hear your take on the sound of a virtual piano/ laptop in a live context. I hadn't really considered that I couldn't get that great sound that I get in my headphones when playing live. I wonder if the bad sound would be down to way you output the sound from the laptop then? Would a USB audio interface solve this problem? I already have a Presonus firebox which I use at home with my iMac. Perhaps this would work. I use it just for audio inputs at home. Not quite sure how it would work live. I don't use the midi connections on it. I use a USB to midi leads to my current Yamaha beast of a piano. Can you use the firebox purely for audio out? It's got FireWire.
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The Nord Yamaha and Roland are all superior solutions for live. The Nord is the best. What Dave said!
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I wouldn't use the headphone jack. You'd probably want to get a USB Audio interface box (basically an external sound card that has a variety of audio inputs and outputs) to go with your laptop. Ideally it will be something with a low latency, something that supports ASIO drivers. For a Mac running Mainstage, that equation changes a bit. ASIO drivers don't apply. I'm not sure whether or not a USB interface would give you better audio than the headphone out, though.
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PUZZLED, I guess you have a specific needs and taste, since you're using mainly piano+rhodes+synth hybrid. So the question is: will your taste change over time? Because at this setup I see you don't want to have simply most authentic grand piano, you want to have your own specific sound you like which also I believe have great piano. For this it looks like you'll want to have laptop, because it's more elastic, you can stack up any sounds. But you may develop you taste to simply look for single sound, grand piano with very authentic timbre and response - then what Dave said applies. Of course NP2 will be very comfortable, you have everything in one unit, with instantaneous startup, with keyboard velocity already set to optimal, and with great pianos/rhodes you can rely on.
about testing: - take tour headphones with you - try dual play in Nord Piano - if you have any laptop/portable recorder, you may take it with you and record your testing, than compare it with your computer sounds directly
Of course you don't want make choice based on recordings, but I found sometimes when you listen to your recording performances on different instruments you may learn something about how to choose the sounds. You may also download some demo versions of software pianos and try them.
About controller+laptop setup: it's good to have some protection. So if your DP-controller has LINE IN, you connect it this way: laptop out --> DP-in --> DP-out, with DP volume at 0, so audience hears only a laptop. So if the laptop hangs, you just volume up your DP. Another solution is using small mixer for that.
Roland FP-4
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