Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Do not buy a new Steingraeber piano

I got it!

Having met Keith, having played several Steingraebers, having been to PianoCraft and the Steingraeber factory, I got it!

Tdot, you are a sourpuss today.

KK, I totally understood the excitement of losing time and being in the moment of discovering what a piano can do to inspire you. And I thought your post funny and sincere! Yes, I know your schooling, believe your talent, and realize your enthusiasm as a salesperson is sincere. You love music. You love playing and you love your instruments of choice. And what's not to love about a Steingraeber?

I have always enjoyed your posts here. Don't stop now!

And, believe you me, I'd have a Steingraeber in a flash, if I could afford one! Now, do tell, have you decided which of these going to your place?

Thanks for that. Wagner and Steingraeber is an unbeatable combination - especially in The Ride of the Valkyries which I have been massacring on my digital piano, waiting for the day when I can get myself a real grand....a Steingraeber (if I don't get a Bösendorfer Imperial ).

German Amazon appears unwilling to ship the Steingraeber Ring project to the U.S. -- anyone else have any success there?

In the meantime, there's this:

http://www.amazon.de/Parsifal-Goes-..._1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360588392&sr=8-1

for the record, my post was not to deflate keith's crafty promotion but simply point out that other dealers are judged by different standards here. jeff tausch, whom i know, and know his fine store, is as enthusiastic about his product line as keith, albeit much more forthright in touting his wares when posting, for example, about new yamahas or yamaha tech. yet he invariably gets his hand slapped for 'advertising' when he is (overly?) exuberantly posting about a product.

my point is that guidelines of this nature should be based on substance (e.g. accuracy & truthfulness of the content) and not style, so that those who have a commercial interest here understand what rules they're playing by, and they're equally applied to all.

Entheo, your point is well taken and Jeff Tausch, or any of our dealer members here are free to post enthusiastic announcements about product changes, new products or whatever. However, when it comes to interpretation, that is a more complicated issue…

Fact is, we all promote ourselves here in some form or fashion, but where is the line between self promotion and advertising? Like I said, there is no hard and fast rule… it is a matter of interpretation.

Now, on the other hand, there is such a thing as blatant advertising. That rarely occurs here with our dealer members, but it does occur. I might also add that PW would not be the same without our dealer members. They are a very important asset to this forum.

So, is it subtle advertising or self-promotion or both? Again, it is a matter of interpretation.

Ken Knapp brought up an important point… consistency.

As a moderator here, I know that not everyone will agree with my decisions (when moderator action is taken). Maybe I need a pay raise…

Don’t know if this makes you feel any better or not, but it is what it is…

Rick

Rickster,
please double your current salary. ;p

Keith,

loved the post. Too bad a sense of humor isn't a prerequisite for visiting PW.

What's this? The threat of you not posting here if you garner less than universal agreement and appobation? If, as you say, I was the only dissenting vote and your purpose was to get as favorable a response as possible, you should have settled for 100% minus one. You didn't have to fire off a 75 line retort (plus the quotes that dissected my 15 lines).

I'll meet you halfway on this. I will not ignore your posts. They can be quite instructive, among the most thought-provoking I read here. Upon your return from your hiatus, I read your post on the donimoes that fall to make low-production pianos so expensive. It was instructive and (sorry)logical

So I'll read your posts, but I will not respond to them so as to avoid being the minus one factor.

Whether you read mine or not is completely up to you. I have no control over that. I'm certainly not out to get you. I simply disagreed with your approach here.

"appobation" ?

"donimoes" ?

I suggest the complete OED.

I was actually thinking about this thread last night.

A couple of years ago, through some sort of obvious miscommunication, I wound up at a fancy party in San Marino. The kind of party where waiters bring drinks and hors d'oeuvres around to you. There was a beautiful Steinway B there. I asked the host, and he said nobody in the house played. So, basically, it just sat there looking impressive.

Last night I was at a more modest potluck party with a bunch of old climbers and mountaineers. In this home sat a Samick baby grand, on the music desk was a Schirmer edition of Diabelli Sonatinas the hostess was studiously working through. She loves Diabelli. There was a stack of other music on the desk as well, all the usual suspects, Bach, Chopin, Beethoven. She talked about getting lost in the music for hours at a time. She's played all her life.

That Samick must be a wonderful piano.

Great story and a very valid point.

On the other hand, having a piano that you truly love really can help inspire someone to play more than they otherwise might and to derive greater enjoyment the experience than might otherwise happen.

All music is good and all pianos are good, but it's frequently said here that -- all other things being equal -- people should get the best piano they can comfortably afford. That still seems like good advice to me.

While this is entirely true, it's still nice to hear a good pianist on a good piano.

Or a great one on a great one...

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Cellphonepictures045.jpg

Norbert

Thanks for a great post. "If you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with."

As a matter of fact, it will do.

It's amusing that you ask for confirmation on that particular piano for two reasons.

First, I believe that you were the "pirate" that carried it off leaving behind your Avant. It seems to me that you should be asking yourself, not others, if it will do.

Second, before the piano was sold, Keith presented the same video on the Piano Forum as a thread opener. I recall it well because the piano made quite a statement about itself through the hands and mind of Mr. Tirrell. What you may find ironic is that I expressed a very positive honest reaction to that piano on that thead. You may further find the following exchange to be informative reading. My comments are in italics. Keith's are in bold.
_________________

Hey Keith,

What a sterling presentation of that piano!

First of all, the visual setting. I'm not a fan of the shape of grand pianos or the impact that a grand piano has on a room, but this setting is just wonderful, and that Steingraeber with that finish and presented on its short stick has a very pleasing visual line.

Second, the artist. Mr. Tirrell makes Chopin the star. His manner never distracts from the music. His movements are compact with no flamboyance. His playing is secure and confident without being aloof. His phrasing shows an introspective approach that puts Chopin's message first and foremost.

Third, the piano. In listening (3 times now) I really got into the shape of the tone and the length of the decay. They worked so well together!. IMO the sustain was long enough to support the flow of the music without being so long that it interfered with an appreciation of all the notes and their dynamics. Although all three Mazurkas demonstrated this and the second one played is a personal favorite of mine, I thought the last one in particular showcased the balance of fundamental tone and an appropriate sustain.

Last, I don't know to what extent it was the touch control of Mr. Tirrell and to what extent it was the preparation of the piano, but it was noticeable to me that this piano was in no way as percussively bright as a new Steingraeber grand can be.

In that vein, I have a question for you. (Go figure ). With regard to this piano as played, where did preparation end and customization begin? I ask that because I know you choose your Steingraebers at the factory and I have heard from others that Mr. Steingaeber will see to it that his pianos are prepped to the liking of his retailer customer before they leave the factory.

Hi Turandot,

Thanks for the nice comments. Your observation about the balance and shape of the tone on this piano was dead on, and Im kind of shocked and pleased that you were able to get that from a YouTube video.


As for what you are describing as a percussive brilliance that you normally hear in Steingraebers, I assure you, that sound is definately available in this piano should the pianist desire it, and it is an important part of the Steingraeber tone. However, we have set this piano up a bit differently from how they come from the factory and the pianist has to work a bit harder to get that sound. It is interesting that you made that comment because Udo Steingraeber also noticed this. We demonstrated to him that it was still in his piano, only it required a bit more effort than normal to achieve. He was delighted.
It is important to note that we don't customize all our Steingraebers and we have sold many that nothing more than basic work was done, and those clients are quite happy.
The post above this one hopefully answers your other questions.

Oh Ye of little faith!

Sennhrisers helped, and it is. after all. a very fine recording. And that piano..........is a knockout.

Yes, Keith. Many thanks. All my questions have been answered. Some of them had already been answered in your post to Emmanuel Ravelli.

My suspicions have also been confirmed once again. You are one dangerous hombre.

_______________

That thread evoked a lot of positive comments about what I believe is now your piano. So, if you need reinforcement on your decision (and I certainly don't think you should), you might enjoy reading the whole of it.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1732779/1.html

In reviewing this particular Steingraeber thread (which is how I came across your post), I noticed that comments have been directed to appreciation of humor, an endorsement of the brand from a few who state a familiarity with it, comments alluding to what a party-pooper I am, and a banal comment on my typo by an apostle of pedantry. There also seem to be a few posts with stirrings of possible inappropriate self-promoton, and a moderator response that a story of a piano love affair that ultimately cracks your cranium can be a fine and fun thing. Finally, there are Keith's own responses which place him at the podium addressing the PW multitude and me as the lone heckler in the back of the room.

I'm not so sure I see it that way. There are after all thousands of page views and a few dozen individuals responding. It's conceivable that among the silent multitude there is a fair bit of appreciation for Gary' story of that homely Samick, although surely not as much as for the Steingraeber that lured a grown man to a cave. I do support the moderators though that there's not enough smoke here to make a fire. People don't lay down significant coin on a piano because it may split open their melons (although people choose a given piano for some strange reasons). The salesmanship that Keith owned up to -- it may stir up some brand curiosity, but that's not a bad thing even for the other silent Steingraeber retailers who may be wincing at his approach here.

Anyway, to answer your question, it's good enough. By all means it's good enough. Enjoy that piano. Work hard to make yourself its equal and you'll enjoy it even more.

Aah - The announcement from the Heights of Olympus.

I'm trying, T-dot, thanks.

For the record, I enjoyed Gary's post about the Samick as much as anyone, as I noted above.

In addition, I need no reinforcement on my decision to choose this piano, as I've already stated at length in another thread. I haven't played as many pianos as some, but this is the best piano my hands have ever touched. I couldn't be happier with it, and nothing I've said suggests otherwise.

You asked for a video, and I posted one. I'm glad you like it.

Marty:

Or perhaps Mount Hubris

Keith, I enjoyed your post (humor is always a nice touch), and I welcome all your posts. You make a lot of positive contributions to the forum. Please don't let a cranky detractor keep you from participating in the future.

Signed,
One of the silent multitude.

To whom it may concern:

The level of repulsive vitriol that our forum now supports is something that I find so profoundly hurtful that I will never visit this sight again. Decent ladies and gentlemen simply do not speak or write in such a manner.

Why is it that is seems to be the most admired and indisputable authorities in the piano world that are attacked in such a manner ? Who cares if Keith is a retailer ? Havewe all lost the love of our instrument that we can condemn one of its devoted servants ? The pianos that this man has provided sustain and nurture artists that NONE of us here can approach.

The video of Shaun Terrill playing the Steingraeber certainly indicates that the piano is special. However, is it totally lost that his playing is simply off the charts in its beauty and naturalness ? However talented the young British pianist is, he could learn MUCH from listening to Shaun Terrill for 30 seconds. Have any of you heard his Rachmaninov Sonata, played on a not particularly remarkable concert grand and in an appalling acoustic ? It is stupendous playing.

It seems that the dog biscuit tribe simply must attack the Tiffany diamonds. Well, you can do it WITHOUT this particular audience member. This is roman coliseum stuff.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

Step off the ledge, please, Karl. In this thread you see a lot of positive, constructive comments and one or two curmudgeonly posts. That's just the internet, and this site is better than most.

If you let the few bad-apple postings chase you away, then that perspective prevails.

Don't go. We need you here.

That's not the way I remember it!!!