Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
128 registered members (anotherscott, AZNpiano, 36251, ando, AJB, 23 invisible), 976 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 7 of 14 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 13 14
#2030369 - 02/10/13 10:59 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: FSO]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 782
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member
Old Man  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 782
Michigan, USA
Originally Posted by FSO
See I...we...sorry, I *really* didn't make myself clear; I perhaps stated too lightly how *inadequate* the term homophobe is...that there is merely one word to encompass any degree of unsettlement is abominable and leads to just this kind of thing laugh Um...it's strange though; quite a lot of straight men seem to like seeing homosexual *women* snogging away...which would suggest it's more about attraction than whether the...um...activities are similarly choreographed...but...then surely they would hate seeing heterosexuals out together as half of the couple should be creeping them out...I just think it's one of "those things". Um...perhaps I read too much into Steve's comment, in which case I apologise...see, I'm anti-prejudice but you're under the misapprehension that that's what you are...if you don't like broccoli but have tried it enough times you can't be prejudiced; it's only having had no experience (or too little) that pops you into that category. Now, um, if it makes your stomach balk a bit, that's fine, it just is. I can keep waffling but I'm sure you've got it by now...oh, and just so you know, the LGBT get the royal stuffing kicked out of them world over; I've been assaulted and, at the lower end, had the right Michael taken out of me for what many would call my "choices". laugh Just saying, um, I do know what some *very* whatever-phobic people can get up to.

Yes, the word is certainly inadequate, but I now understand what you meant. Thanks for the clarification. Since I agreed 100% with what Steve was saying, it was disconcerting to then see his words labeled "homophobic". The ol' defense mechanism kicked in, and well, there you have it.

I know that "the road to heck is paved with good intentions", but I hope that until we old guys fade away, good will still counts for something. smile

(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)


(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2030372 - 02/10/13 11:01 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Old Man]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
USA
Originally Posted by Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...

#2030403 - 02/10/13 12:15 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,880
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member
wayne33yrs  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,880
Sheffield UK
lol smile


#2030407 - 02/10/13 12:20 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
debrucey  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
Manchester, UK
I love Gimme Gimme Gimme laugh

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2030559 - 02/10/13 03:37 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: JoelW]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,367
Carey Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,367
Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...


Consider the possibilities.....

"Go to heck!!"
"Burn in heck"
"When heck freezes over"
"A cold day in heck"
"Heaven and heck"
"Been to heck and back"
"One heck of a pianist" (well perhaps this one isn't so strange)

But I digress...... grin



Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai CA-65
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
#2030611 - 02/10/13 04:56 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Carey]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 782
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member
Old Man  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 782
Michigan, USA
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...


Consider the possibilities.....

"Go to heck!!"
"Burn in heck"
"When heck freezes over"
"A cold day in heck"
"Heaven and heck"
"Been to heck and back"
"One heck of a pianist" (well perhaps this one isn't so strange)

But I digress...... grin


ha

A further digression.

"The gates of heck"
"Heck on earth"
"Heck, Michigan"

and ... dare I? ... I dare

"Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned."

#2030637 - 02/10/13 05:32 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,481
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Mark...  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,481
Jersey Shore
Don't laugh...

I sometimes wonder, if as a straight male I need to find a feminine side in order to bring out a better more musical sound. It's hard to describe.


#2030638 - 02/10/13 05:33 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Old Man]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,367
Carey Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,367
Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by Old Man

and ... dare I? ... I dare
"Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned."

Heck yes !!!! thumb


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai CA-65
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
#2030696 - 02/10/13 06:48 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Old Man]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,216
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,216
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by Old Man
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...


Consider the possibilities.....

"Go to heck!!"
"Burn in heck"
"When heck freezes over"
"A cold day in heck"
"Heaven and heck"
"Been to heck and back"
"One heck of a pianist" (well perhaps this one isn't so strange)

But I digress...... grin


ha

A further digression.

"The gates of heck"
"Heck on earth"
"Heck, Michigan"

and ... dare I? ... I dare

"Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned."


I was reading an interesting book about Heckenistic Greece the other day..

#2030767 - 02/10/13 08:45 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: ando]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,718
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,718
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Old Man
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...


Consider the possibilities.....

"Go to heck!!"
"Burn in heck"
"When heck freezes over"
"A cold day in heck"
"Heaven and heck"
"Been to heck and back"
"One heck of a pianist" (well perhaps this one isn't so strange)

But I digress...... grin


ha

A further digression.

"The gates of heck"
"Heck on earth"
"Heck, Michigan"

and ... dare I? ... I dare

"Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned."


I was reading an interesting book about Heckenistic Greece the other day..


What did it have to say about Hecken of Troy? smile


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
#2030862 - 02/11/13 01:05 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: BruceD]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 782
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member
Old Man  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 782
Michigan, USA
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Old Man
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by Old Man


(And I can't believe the software editor just changed "h*ll" to "heck"! mad)



Yeah, that really doesn't make sense. You can say it on TV, but not on PW? Hmmmm...


Consider the possibilities.....

"Go to heck!!"
"Burn in heck"
"When heck freezes over"
"A cold day in heck"
"Heaven and heck"
"Been to heck and back"
"One heck of a pianist" (well perhaps this one isn't so strange)

But I digress...... grin


ha

A further digression.

"The gates of heck"
"Heck on earth"
"Heck, Michigan"

and ... dare I? ... I dare

"Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned."


I was reading an interesting book about Heckenistic Greece the other day..


What did it have to say about Hecken of Troy? smile

thumb

Is this what we've become?? I think Kreisler's prophecy of several pages ago has finally come to pass.

"...my guess is the thread will go sour soon enough."

Perhaps not quite soon enough.

laugh laugh


#2031071 - 02/11/13 12:12 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: debrucey]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,055
JdhPiano924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JdhPiano924  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,055
Evansville, Indiana
Originally Posted by debrucey
"In a civilized society we do not distinguish nor do we discriminate based on religious beliefs, sexual orientation, skin colour ethnicity, age, or gender."

But we do. We shouldn't, but we do. And it's not noble to act as if it doesn't happen as if that were the same as being politically correct. It is still the case that there are very few internationally renowned concert pianists who are black, for example. Whilst no decent person would judge a concert pianist on such a thing, its still an interesting conversation to have about the various social reasons as to why that might be the case.

I can understand why straight people who are either trying too hard to be politically correct or find it an uncomfortable subject would argue that such a conversation about gay pianists is uninteresting and not worth having. I, however, do find it interesting, to think about the various reasons for why there might be a higher percentage than normal of pianists who are gay, if indeed this is the case at all. Being at music college, this does seem to be the case, although I think it is more the case with singers. In my year, 9 out of the 12 tenors are gay. The other years are similar, and friends of mine in other colleges in the country have said that the numbers are similar where they are as well.
Estimates for how much of the general population are gay in some degree vary from 2% to 10% depending on which study you consult. Clearly there is some kind of disparity here. Does nobody think it might be even slightly interesting to pontificate on why this might be?


Your post interested,

When I lived in Chicago, and went to school there it seemed there were two groups. The students from Asia, who were about half of all the pianists and seemed to group together, and Everyone else. In the everyone else category, most of the guys were gay. 8/10 or something like that.

As I finish my undergrad, after my own problems kept me from school for a few years. I now got to school in Central indiana. Out of all the pianist, which is a much more unsegregated group those numbers seem to be in the reverse. In fact here, most of the pianist are ultra conservative people who would prefer to stay at home.

#2031161 - 02/11/13 02:45 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Mark...]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,339
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Rostosky  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,339
Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Originally Posted by Mark...
Don't laugh...

I sometimes wonder, if as a straight male I need to find a feminine side in order to bring out a better more musical sound. It's hard to describe.



Unfortunately it is funny that you should say that, because the other day i was just musing the possibility of breast augmentation surgery in both the male and female pianist as a method of not looking at ones hands whilst playing, if ( I mused) the implants were of a suitable size it would indeed be difficult to see ones hands while at the piano and may well be helpful.

The only downside I could think of is that every mouthfull of pie one consumed would have to go "the long way round" from plate to mouth, but saying that , even that may be beneficial in those amongst us that eat to fast anyways?




Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project
#2031422 - 02/11/13 07:39 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
asthecrowflies Offline
Full Member
asthecrowflies  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
London, Cambridge, San Francis...
I'd love to get a poll of the gender & orientation break outs of PW posters. I think we'd find a higher proportion of homos here than in the general public. Much higher.

I think it's funny that some people think that the subject of gay pianists is a prurient one. In fact, I think of it as exactly the opposite - it's a search for identify amongst those of us who seek to understand our place in the world, through the lens of people "like us" whom we respect. Also, to better understand how lucky we are in this day and age, and how fortunate we weren't born in an earlier era. I can't help but think about what it must have been growing up as Van Cliburn, or Pletnev, or Richter, or Glenn Gould. Can't help but think if they channeled their frustrations into their music, and htat helped to take away the pain of being different.

Also Nelson Freire. I wonder, hey, if he were straight, would he still be best buds with Martha? One of my favorite Martha stories is of her and Nelson at a Horowitz performance of the Rach 3, holding hands, enraptured. It conjures a sublime happiness that I can only explain by associating it with my own memories of feeling truly safe in my own skin confiding in a female friend in those tormented teen years. Of course, Martha is a whole 'nother story - she is to many gay male pianists what Cher is to ordinary gays of a certain age. Or Judy. Or Madonna.

Anyway, I know I'm late to the party, and maybe this thread is just dying embers now, but just thought i'd weigh in!


PS. Debrucey. Your largely ignored joke about wiping was the funniest thing I've read in ages. I spit my drink all over my laptop when i read that. Magnificent.


Currently working on: Bach Partita 4, English Suite 2, Toccata d-minor, Chopin-op 10/1, Schubert Impromptus
#2031430 - 02/11/13 07:52 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: asthecrowflies]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
USA
Originally Posted by asthecrowflies
PS. Debrucey. Your largely ignored joke about wiping was the funniest thing I've read in ages. I spit my drink all over my laptop when i read that. Magnificent.


That was Fugue14's joke.

#2031435 - 02/11/13 08:07 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: JoelW]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
asthecrowflies Offline
Full Member
asthecrowflies  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
London, Cambridge, San Francis...
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by asthecrowflies
PS. Debrucey. Your largely ignored joke about wiping was the funniest thing I've read in ages. I spit my drink all over my laptop when i read that. Magnificent.


That was Fugue14's joke.


Haha, no, that wasn't the joke, he just was making an analogy... debrucey was too clever by half & turned the analogy on its head.


Currently working on: Bach Partita 4, English Suite 2, Toccata d-minor, Chopin-op 10/1, Schubert Impromptus
#2031472 - 02/11/13 09:43 PM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 212
CWPiano Offline
Full Member
CWPiano  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 212
I think the subject of society's perception of homosexuals and professions associated with it is something we can't ignore as the impact is very real. Allow me to illustrate with my own experience.

I have mentioned this before in Piano Teachers' Forum that I started piano very late at 17 years old. A main reason for this is because my parents were vehemently against giving me piano lessons despite repeated requests from me. I come from a traditional Indonesian Chinese family and males are traditionally expected to go into 'macho' professions such as doctor, lawyer, engineer, businessman, etc. Music is viewed as a 'sissy' profession because of this skewed belief that males who learn music will turn gay. And a lot of musicians are gay, so it kind of reinforced this point.

So only when I was 17 when I had some savings I started piano lessons. Needless to say, this exasperated my parents to no end. My mother pleaded me to stop learning because she was genuinely afraid I would turn gay. She also said her aerobic mates were making fun of her because she had a son who learns piano and only gays or girls learn piano (I am not making this up). Imagine the bombshell when I told them I wanted to pursue music full time. But well, I soldiered on and along the way I fell in love, married, and now have a son. At least this alleviated their major concern that I was gay, eh.

So, I am wondering after what I had gone through. How many potential musicians out there are denied chance to pursue their dreams because of society's objection. The large number of musicians who are gay, could it be because the straights are denied a chance to study music?

Last edited by CWPiano; 02/11/13 09:44 PM.

Singapore based private teacher specialising in accelerated ABRSM course.
Author of Visual Guides to Scales and Arpeggios.
Visit my website at www.wunadymusicstudio.com
#2031567 - 02/12/13 01:21 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: asthecrowflies]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 962
Ferdinand Offline
500 Post Club Member
Ferdinand  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 962
California
Originally Posted by asthecrowflies
I'd love to get a poll of the gender & orientation break outs of PW posters. I think we'd find a higher proportion of homos here than in the general public. Much higher.

I think it's funny that some people think that the subject of gay pianists is a prurient one. In fact, I think of it as exactly the opposite - it's a search for identify amongst those of us who seek to understand our place in the world, through the lens of people "like us" whom we respect. Also, to better understand how lucky we are in this day and age, and how fortunate we weren't born in an earlier era. I can't help but think about what it must have been growing up as Van Cliburn, or Pletnev, or Richter, or Glenn Gould. Can't help but think if they channeled their frustrations into their music, and htat helped to take away the pain of being different.
...

Are you implying that Gould was gay? I don't think he was. Or do you mean just that he grew up being "different"? That is certainly so. However, it's debatable whether someone like Gould "in this day and age" would have a less painful or frustrating experience of growing up compared to decades past.

#2031572 - 02/12/13 01:24 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: CWPiano]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,701
Whizbang Online content
1000 Post Club Member
Whizbang  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,701
Originally Posted by CWPiano
I think the subject of society's perception of homosexuals and professions associated with it is something we can't ignore as the impact is very real. Allow me to illustrate with my own experience.

...


Geez. A breath of fresh air on this thread.

I think there are most certainly cultural differences. Around the turn of the 20th century, in the US, the piano was definitely view as a girl's instrument--that is, if I'm to believe statements I've read by Gershwin and Morton.

In the US, at least, and to my impression, which may be very flawed, the piano as an instrument no longer has that stigma (say, compared to the flute), though perhaps classical music might. Certainly, music isn't viewed as manly as a pastime as, oh, football, but I never got the sense growing up that it came with a particular effeminate stigma. But I wasn't a part of that music study subculture.

While the plural of anecdote isn't evidence, I find that most of the (predominantly mainland) Chinese people I work with (in tech) want their kids to study an instrument, including piano, regardless of sex.

What, would you posit, is the difference, in this regard, if any, between mainland and HK Chinese culture and Indonesian Chinese culture?


Whizbang [Linked Image]
amateur ragtime pianist
https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschala
#2031614 - 02/12/13 03:39 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Whizbang]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
Originally Posted by Whizbang
I think there are most certainly cultural differences. Around the turn of the 20th century, in the US, the piano was definitely view as a girl's instrument--that is, if I'm to believe statements I've read by Gershwin and Morton.

In the US, at least, and to my impression, which may be very flawed, the piano as an instrument no longer has that stigma (say, compared to the flute), though perhaps classical music might. Certainly, music isn't viewed as manly as a pastime as, oh, football, but I never got the sense growing up that it came with a particular effeminate stigma. But I wasn't a part of that music study subculture.


Don't kid yourself. Guitar is cool. Piano not so much.

In what is likely a majority of small town America in the " outlaying rural areas " between the two coasts, classical piano is still definitely seen by the general culture as " gay " , " sissy " or " for girls ". A boy with any kind of social standing might as well put a pink tu tu on and hang a sign on his back " kick me here ".

What has changed is that there are now more kids who, through everything from the fact that the fastest growing religion in the US today is " no affiliation ", mass media changes with from matter-of-fact Will and Grace episodes through Glee through " it will get better " youtube videos, etc. don't feel perhaps as isolated, alone or estranged or suicidal from fear and bullying and outright assault.

http://www.itgetsbetter.org/

On my street in Amsterdam with lots of families and an estimated 30+ maintained pianos in the homes, not one boy has dared to take piano lessons over the past 15 years. Drums yes. Guitar yes. Those are the bold and daring choices. The safe choices of the popular boys? Field Hockey or Soccer. Period.

#2031633 - 02/12/13 05:23 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Horowitzian  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Right, every Smalltown USA is an @$$backerds hicktown. How you came to that wild generalization, I've no idea.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
#2031639 - 02/12/13 05:36 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: GeorgeB]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,174
chopin_r_us Offline
2000 Post Club Member
chopin_r_us  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,174
London
heck, you're right Old Man. Is the software from the Bible Belt (@$$backerds hicktown)? In which case I'm surprised discussions like this are allowed. Hey! It doesn't do heck with a capital! Not only prudish but ungrammatical to boot.

#2031657 - 02/12/13 07:14 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Horowitzian]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Right, every Smalltown USA is an @$$backerds hicktown. How you came to that wild generalization, I've no idea.


As far I can see, you are the only one making that statement.

Having a different idea in your head is one thing. But it would be more interesting to hear you lay out a rebuttal in the form of a substantive contribution. At the very least have the intellectual honesty and graciousness to quote accurately what your fellow interlocutors have actually stated rather than missattributing them or making up your own hyperbolic strawmen.

#2031667 - 02/12/13 07:51 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,922
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member
wr  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,922
Originally Posted by theJourney

In what is likely a majority of small town America in the " outlaying rural areas " between the two coasts, classical piano is still definitely seen by the general culture as " gay " , " sissy " or " for girls ". A boy with any kind of social standing might as well put a pink tu tu on and hang a sign on his back " kick me here ".



Having grown up in that sort of environment, I can say, backed up with experience, that you are somewhat right, but there are still many variables at play in how any individual kid will be treated. For one thing, the character of those communities are not all identically repressive and vicious, although there's no doubt they are usually far more conservative than big cities.

But there are many variables involved with an individual kid, too. Simply having an engaging and warm personality can dramatically affect how things go, for example.

#2031675 - 02/12/13 08:08 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: wr]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
Originally Posted by wr
Having grown up in that sort of environment, I can say, backed up with experience, that you are somewhat right, but there are still many variables at play in how any individual kid will be treated. For one thing, the character of those communities are not all identically repressive and vicious, although there's no doubt they are usually far more conservative than big cities.

But there are many variables involved with an individual kid, too. Simply having an engaging and warm personality can dramatically affect how things go, for example.


Indeed. Attractive, empathetic extroverts with charm and poise can get away with murder. Also, those strong, independent kids with an irrepressible love of l'art pour l'art who don't give a damn what others think can create for themselves more freedom of choice than those who are more gregarious social animals, despite the details of any specific limitations inherent in their local situation -- assuming there are competent piano teachers on hand and a household budget that can support such extravagance.

#2031677 - 02/12/13 08:13 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: Whizbang]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,922
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member
wr  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,922
Originally Posted by Whizbang


I think there are most certainly cultural differences. Around the turn of the 20th century, in the US, the piano was definitely view as a girl's instrument--that is, if I'm to believe statements I've read by Gershwin and Morton.

In the US, at least, and to my impression, which may be very flawed, the piano as an instrument no longer has that stigma (say, compared to the flute), though perhaps classical music might. Certainly, music isn't viewed as manly as a pastime as, oh, football, but I never got the sense growing up that it came with a particular effeminate stigma. But I wasn't a part of that music study subculture.



I think one reason the piano no longer has that "stigma" is that the piano is no longer even there in most middle-class homes, and it certainly doesn't play the same kind of social role it once did. Its role as a center for socialization has long since been supplanted by the Weber grill and sports on the giant flat-screen TV, which I think are usually "guy" things.


#2031687 - 02/12/13 08:32 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: CWPiano]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,922
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member
wr  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,922
Originally Posted by CWPiano


So, I am wondering after what I had gone through. How many potential musicians out there are denied chance to pursue their dreams because of society's objection. The large number of musicians who are gay, could it be because the straights are denied a chance to study music?


That's a very good point, I think.

But you have to also factor in that a certain number of gays avoiding being identified as gay (known as being "in the closet") will also avoid the pursuit of "gay" careers like classical music, and will instead take up ditch digging or medicine or tech or whatever, instead of their real love.

I also find it extremely odd that interest and careers in classical music are specifically associated with "gay", but the same is not true in pop music, even though there are pop musicians who are gay and out about it. What's that all about?

#2031689 - 02/12/13 08:32 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: wr]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
Originally Posted by wr
I think one reason the piano no longer has that "stigma" is that the piano is no longer even there in most middle-class homes, and it certainly doesn't play the same kind of social role it once did. Its role as a center for socialization has long since been supplanted by the Weber grill and sports on the giant flat-screen TV, which I think are usually "guy" things.



Interesting. Forgotten is not the same as despised...

After the singing of " Happy Birthday to you", a couple mad rounds of Guitar Hero is about as close as many households will ever have come to actually have made music together at home.

#2031694 - 02/12/13 08:45 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: wr]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
Originally Posted by wr
But you have to also factor in that a certain number of gays avoiding being identified as gay (known as being "in the closet") will also avoid the pursuit of "gay" careers like classical music, and will instead take up ditch digging or medicine or tech or whatever, instead of their real love.

I also find it extremely odd that interest and careers in classical music are specifically associated with "gay", but the same is not true in pop music, even though there are pop musicians who are gay and out about it. What's that all about?


Pop music is heroic, accessible, ubiquitous, forward-looking, free, open and relevant.

Classical music is passe, fussy, formal, confining, prissy, closed and irrelevant.

Liberace is the limp-wristed hood ornament on the classical piano vehicle in the public's unconscious mind's eye.

Elton John, despite the funny eyeglasses and the husband, has us humming the tunes rather than rolling our eyes.

#2031732 - 02/12/13 10:39 AM Re: The piano and homosexuality [Re: theJourney]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,367
Carey Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,367
Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by theJourney

Pop music is heroic, accessible, ubiquitous, forward-looking, free, open and relevant.

Relevant to what???? Most of it may be relevant for the moment - but it quickly becomes passe, largely forgotten, and replaced by something else with a similarly short lifespan. That's why I personally don't follow it anymore.
Quote
Classical music is passe, fussy, formal, confining, prissy, closed and irrelevant.

Sure, whatever - but it seems to have great "staying" power amongst those who make the effort to understand and appreciate it.
Quote
Liberace is the limp-wristed hood ornament on the classical piano vehicle in the public's unconscious mind's eye.
Elton John, despite the funny eyeglasses and the husband, has us humming the tunes rather than rolling our eyes.

Society has changed dramatically (did I say DRAMATICALLY ?) since the 1950's. As timed marched on, even Liberace became more flamboyant and over the top in his public persona - without losing his appeal to general audiences. And, anyway, the "public" that you are referring to is dying off - and most young folks today don't even have a clue who Liberace was.



Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai CA-65
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Page 7 of 14 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 13 14

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
keyboard latency (not the piano kind)
by David Farley. 10/18/17 10:22 AM
Is there going to be a quarterly recital? 11.14?
by piano_primo_1. 10/18/17 10:08 AM
Piano recommendations needed
by flyfishinmusician. 10/18/17 01:09 AM
Thomas Bailey
by ClsscLib. 10/17/17 09:46 PM
Good Gig Bag for Roland RD700NX?
by ClsscLib. 10/17/17 09:26 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,358
Posts2,665,468
Members88,990
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0