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Hey guys!

The disease is strong in me, and I bought another piano yesterday. It's a 1978 Baldwin R, all original in a walnut finish. I sat down to play it, expecting an old beat up piano with perhaps some potential. BOY was I wrong. I must say, I've never played a 5'8" piano that drew me in like this. The treble could be a bit brighter, but the bass was really awesome, and overall I just really loved the piano. The owners couldn't tell me when it had last been tuned (the last receipt in the bench said 2004) but it was very well tuned (and I'm fairly picky). It hasn't moved since it was originally purchased in 1978 (original invoice in the piano bench. Yup smile ) and must have an ideal climate in the room because it looks and plays fantastic. The best part: it was $3000, but it seems to my hands and ears to be worth far more than that.

I'll post some pictures and maybe even a recording in the next few days. laugh

P.S.
Shout out to Rickster, because he infected me with the disease and always responds to these posts.


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GOOD GOIN' !!!!!!!!


Marty in Minnesota

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Wow, you got a great deal!! Congrats


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I must admit, I have "PAS" as well.. I remember you having a Yamaha g2, but it was newer.. how does the R compare to it? great deal btw..

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Sounds great! congratulations!


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I know the feeling... smile

Congratulations!

Rick


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Originally Posted by Gatsbee13
I must admit, I have "PAS" as well.. I remember you having a Yamaha g2, but it was newer.. how does the R compare to it? great deal btw..


The G2 was actually older than this one, but had had loads of work done to it. This seems to be one of those older pianos that was so well kept that it won't need much of anything.

As far as how it compares to the G2, I'd say I like this one better. I preferred the upper treble on the G2 (maybe the Baldwin could be voiced up there; I don't know), but everything else on this one is much nicer. I do also need to get some regulation done on the action, but other than that I have no complaints.


Playing since age 21 (September 2010) and loving it more every day.
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Ya gotta be careful about that Rickster dude, he goes around infecting everyone and feels no guilt.

That's why I like him.


Marty in Minnesota

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I have lots of guesses, but can anyone define exactly what is PAS? smile

On the teacher's forum we have PADS (post and disappear syndrome).

Last edited by Morodiene; 02/10/13 09:57 AM.

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Piano Acquisition Syndrome.

It's where you have the following equation firmly established in your subconcious.

X=n+1

where x = the ideal number of pianos you should have in your possession at any time

and

n = the number of pianos you currently possess.

Forrest


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Originally Posted by woodog
Piano Acquisition Syndrome.

It's where you have the following equation firmly established in your subconcious.

X=n+1

where x = the ideal number of pianos you should have in your possession at any time

and

n = the number of pianos you currently possess.

Forrest

I've always known anything can be expressed mathematically! Woodog, you've got it (PAS) down to a science; or should I say a mathematical formula. grin

Rick


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Congrats, Sam. You got a great piano and a great deal!

No better treatment for PAS...


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Hey guys! I haven't had it tuned or regulated yet, but as promised, here are some pictures of the piano, and some recordings. I recorded some scales and octaves (my rhythm stinks), and a couple bits of music (my friend playing Bach, I think anyway, and me butchering a little Chopin). Neither of us were in a very musical mood, so the playing is pretty bad, but you should still be able to get a sense of the piano's tone.

Scales and octaves, here: https://www.box.com/s/1wguaj5hwy7x2pysllku

Music (I'm using the term very loosely) here: https://www.box.com/s/0cwt8al8rbxcmfz8p873

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Playing since age 21 (September 2010) and loving it more every day.
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WOW! 'You did good' is the biggest understatement of the year.

That is a very good sounding piano. The treble and top are particularly fine.

Enjoy - Enjoy - Enjoy ! ! !


Marty in Minnesota

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Looks really good!

Now you really don't have an excuse to not submit something to the recital :p 2 days left wink


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Hi Sam,

The more I listen to the short audio clip, especially the Chopin, the more impressed I have become with your new piano. It really speaks with the Baldwin voice, which I like very much.

Rereading your OP, I was surprised to note that you thought that the top could be "brighter." It was the top that so impressed me coming from a 5'8" piano. You might spend some time listening to your recording, as it might be a very different sound than at the keyboard. And yeah, the bass is lovely. You have quite a fine instrument.

It is surprising to hear someone else playing one of my own pianos or listening to a practice recording I have made of my own playing. It is all in the 'ear point' of view.


Marty in Minnesota

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I agree that the recording sound is often very different from the sound at the keyboard. I think my initial impression of the top was caused by a mix of many factors, and I'll try to explain them. The action needs regulation. This makes the action feel heavier. The bass is probably less in need of regulation, since it was probably played less. Basically, when I played the presto con fuoco section of that ballade (which I recorded but didn't include in the clip) I found the bass overpowering the treble, especially when compared to my Yamaha C3 (which is all regulated now) where the treble can get really loud if desired. The action on the Baldwin feels both responsive and sluggish (or "heavy") at the same time. This is mostly in sections, like the presto section, where the repetition needs to be used. Since the repetition probably doesn't work as it should when out of regulation, I start to miss notes and get bogged down (especially in the right hand, which has twice the notes), making me feel like the top isn't loud enough.
Did that make any sense?


Playing since age 21 (September 2010) and loving it more every day.
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Originally Posted by Sam Rose
As far as how it compares to the G2, I'd say I like this one better. I preferred the upper treble on the G2 (maybe the Baldwin could be voiced up there; I don't know), but everything else on this one is much nicer. I do also need to get some regulation done on the action, but other than that I have no complaints.

Obviously I have not heard the piano so what I'm about to say is based on generalities (along with some rather extensive experience with Baldwin):

Baldwins are not Yamahas. Much as Baldwin's misguided management wanted them to, Baldwin grands did not—and should not—sound like similarly-sized Yamaha grands. When fitted with appropriate hammers—and the old “Renner Blue” hammers Baldwin insisted on using were not appropriate to their scaling—should have a big, rich and warm sound that is well-balanced across the compass of the keyboard.

After Baldwin stopped pressing its own hammers they switched to a hammer type that was too dense and too heavy for the scaling of the smaller pianos. Heavy hammers are counter-productive in the upper tenor and treble. They produce a lot of hammer knock but less real “tone” than is usually desirable. So someone comes along and tries to brighten them up; usually by chemically hardening them. This doesn’t change the hammer knock problem but it might make the voice “brighter” by virtue of generating a little more energy in the higher partials. But it won’t be a pleasant sound and so, when the next voicer comes along they try to improve the tone by needling the hammers down some. And back and forth we go and where we stop nobody knows!

Bring in someone who really understands hammers. You might be able to improve the performance of the hammers you have simply by removing some of their mass. I can assure you with reasonable confidence that if you try to brighten things up by chemically hardening the hammers that are there now the resulting sounds will become increasingly unpleasant.

ddf


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Yep, sure did.

Knowing the piece, I understand exactly what you are saying. Once it has been regulated, it would be great to hear your evaluation of both voice and touch.

One question, however. Is is the the basic sound which you notice on top, or is it a matter of some judicious voicing to make it more even?


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Originally Posted by Del
Originally Posted by Sam Rose
As far as how it compares to the G2, I'd say I like this one better. I preferred the upper treble on the G2 (maybe the Baldwin could be voiced up there; I don't know), but everything else on this one is much nicer. I do also need to get some regulation done on the action, but other than that I have no complaints.

Obviously I have not heard the piano so what I'm about to say is based on generalities (along with some rather extensive experience with Baldwin):

Baldwins are not Yamahas. Much as Baldwin's misguided management wanted them to, Baldwin grands did not—and should not—sound like similarly-sized Yamaha grands. When fitted with appropriate hammers—and the old “Renner Blue” hammers Baldwin insisted on using were not appropriate to their scaling—should have a big, rich and warm sound that is well-balanced across the compass of the keyboard.

After Baldwin stopped pressing its own hammers they switched to a hammer type that was too dense and too heavy for the scaling of the smaller pianos. Heavy hammers are counter-productive in the upper tenor and treble. They produce a lot of hammer knock but less real “tone” than is usually desirable. So someone comes along and tries to brighten them up; usually by chemically hardening them. This doesn’t change the hammer knock problem but it might make the voice “brighter” by virtue of generating a little more energy in the higher partials. But it won’t be a pleasant sound and so, when the next voicer comes along they try to improve the tone by needling the hammers down some. And back and forth we go and where we stop nobody knows!

Bring in someone who really understands hammers. You might be able to improve the performance of the hammers you have simply by removing some of their mass. I can assure you with reasonable confidence that if you try to brighten things up by chemically hardening the hammers that are there now the resulting sounds will become increasingly unpleasant.

ddf


Thanks for that information Del! I don't think I'm going to have anything done to the hammers. I think they are the original hammers that were put in in 1978, and they have very little wear. As far as you not having heard the piano, since you're already here, you CAN listen to it! I posted a couple recordings a couple posts up (the one with the pictures). I'd love to hear your professional opinion after listening to those. I've never interacted with you directly on this forum, but I love reading your posts, so thanks for coming here to this thread and posting (a pleasant and unexpected surprise!).

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Yep, sure did.

Knowing the piece, I understand exactly what you are saying. Once it has been regulated, it would be great to hear your evaluation of both voice and touch.

One question, however. Is is the the basic sound which you notice on top, or is it a matter of some judicious voicing to make it more even?


It was just an issue of how I felt that I couldn't get as much out of the top as I wanted at times, but as I said, that probably boils down to action regulation and / or me adjusting to the piano. Playing the notes at the top by themselves, I have no complaints. I think it sounds great, and I don't even know when the piano was last tuned.


Playing since age 21 (September 2010) and loving it more every day.
"You can play better than BachMach2." - Mark_C
Currently Butchering:
Rachmaninoff Prelude in C# Minor
My Piano Diary: http://www.youtube.com/sirsardonic
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