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Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill] #2029429 02/08/13 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DBill
Andy, pv88, and Don may very well get “the last laugh”. While my first choice WAS a Casio Celviano AP 650, there is an ongoing problem with Casio as to their ability to sell it. (And of course – my ability to buy it.)



To clarify, the AP-650 has been shipping here in the US for just over a week. They may be a little hard to get until all the orders get filled.


-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
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Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill] #2029478 02/08/13 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DBill
Basically, it’s come down to Casio getting its act together. If Casio is able to sell me a Celviano AP 650 by early next week (before the CN34 can ship), I’ll buy the 650. Otherwise it will be the CN34.


Why the hurry? Why not try both pianos and purchase the instrument you prefer?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140] #2029547 02/08/13 10:46 PM
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As far as I can see, both the Kawai CN34 and Casio Celviano 650 are excellent machines. I live too far away from any location where I could test them, but I suspect I would have a difficult time telling which is the “better machine” even if I could test them side by side. (My personal opinion is that both are “better machines”.)

The CN34 has more “toys” to play with than the 650. It looks like the 650 has better speakers. Essentially, it’s a trade-off as far as the specs between the two are concerned - although the 650’s “better” speakers are of some significance.

The problem is the ability to buy a 650. The AP 650 has been in production since last summer. It has been widely available (via multiple Internet retailers) in Asia, Europe, Africa, and even Russia since last summer. There isn’t a problem in producing enough of them.

Casio is a “people’s” company. It had a winning marketing program when it allowed people to go to any of multiple websites, click on a few buttons, fill in a credit card number, and in due course of time, FedEx would show up with the product.

The new dealer system freezes out Internet retailers such as KraftMusic.com, (possibly/probably) Amazon.com, etc. (I was the person who tipped off Kraft that they had been frozen out – and I have the emails to prove it.)

Casio’s decision to go to a dealer organization was made months ago. Dealerships should have been set up so customers could find out who to go to even if an item wasn’t in stock. As of this evening, Casio’s Dealer Locator ( http://www.casiomusicgear.com/wheretobuy ) still doesn’t show any dealer in Colorado.

A final note of interest came up when I asked the Kawai dealer “What happens if the CN34 has a problem and needs repairing?” The dealer’s answer was that Kawai would send out a technician to my home to fix it. I don’t think Casio has this service, but it might be something that Mike and Casio might want to think about. (I.E. When a customer buys a product, if “at home” service isn’t included, at least give the customer a chance to buy an “at home” service contract.)

Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill] #2029550 02/08/13 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DBill
The problem is the ability to buy a 650. The AP 650 has been in production since last summer. It has been widely available (via multiple Internet retailers) in Asia, Europe, Africa, and even Russia since last summer. There isn’t a problem in producing enough of them.


Bill,
To clarify again, we did not bring these into the US until January. The NAMM show was the official launch of these in the US and as I said they have only been shipping for less than 2 weeks.

As for our dealer locator, I've been traveling but I know they were working it. Our new distribution strategy was not announced until the NAMM show to our sales force and our dealer network. So in some parts of the country they are still determining who will and will not be carrying the Celviano line.

Last edited by Mike_Martin; 02/08/13 11:08 PM.

-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140] #2029612 02/09/13 02:11 AM
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JFP Offline
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Bill, although it may seem the ap650 was available early on in Europe , this is not the case. Some web retailers listed the new Casio products by the end of 2012, but they all had expected delivery times of several weeks or even longer. Because the official release wasn't even out yet. Some list the px5s already, which isn't available either. They just want to draw customers who are interested in these boards; it doesn't really mean they have it in stock (yet). Slowly 650's start to dripple in. Have patience , it's a brand new product.

As for 650 vs 34 - the sound character of the AP presets is really different. Try to listen to online demos and see what you like better, if you can't compare them in real life . I expect the 650 doesn't have the new EP's from the px5s series, so there the Kawai will win. About the speakers I don't know , but concerning after sales service , Mike might give a clue what to expect (if something gets broken).

Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: JFP] #2029636 02/09/13 03:53 AM
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I'm also curious about the after sales service. If something breaks, do we send the AP650 to Casio or Casio will send someone to fix it?

Nicolas


If you don't think too good, don't think too much (Ted Williams)
Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140] #2029808 02/09/13 11:40 AM
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I'll be figuring out which way I'll go over the weekend.

As a side note to baseball fan mrcultureshock - I used to live in R.I. and would occasionally head for Boston's Fenway Park just to watch "The Thumper".

Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140] #2029820 02/09/13 11:58 AM
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I'll jump in here as someone newer to the forum. I was ready to buy an AP-650 as well, but the late release in the US versus other countries, which is not a good business strategy, had me move on to a Kawai CN-34. I got a killer price right after christmas as the dealer was clearing out stock, but still more expensive than the AP-650 would have been.

My biggest complaints are that the sound system is a bit muffled and flat, especially in the midrange and treble. There is some resonance around the F5 range with the main concert grand sound. Unfortunately, this sample set seems to be used for the other piano sounds and carries through. Some of the other sounds such as organs, strings, pads are quite enjoyable. I ended up adding a set of studio monitors, KRK Rokit 5's, which improves things. On the plus side, besides some of the other sounds, I do like the look of the piano and the feel of the keyboard.

In conclusion, you may want to hold out for the AP-650 since I think the sound system is going to be better. I did like the PX-350 I tried, but wanted a console for the living room. You may want to reach out to AZPiano as he offered to contact me once these were in stock.

Last edited by bsntn99; 03/09/13 12:14 PM.
Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: mrcultureshock] #2029824 02/09/13 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mrcultureshock
I'm also curious about the after sales service. If something breaks, do we send the AP650 to Casio or Casio will send someone to fix it?

Nicolas


We have field service (in the US). I can't speak for how it is handled in other countries.


-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: bsntn99] #2029843 02/09/13 12:39 PM
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Kawai James will probably chime in here, but try checking the Kawai site to see if there is a firmware update for your piano or contact Kawai. It should not be locking up.

Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140] #2029934 02/09/13 03:54 PM
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Casio has a web page at http://www.casio-usa.com/support/musicservicecenters that at least gives you drop off locations if you need repair work. For me, the closest location would be a 3-hour drive (each way) from my home in Colorado to Gallup, NM. Not exactly “on site” service, but for me at least, it would be feasible to disconnect the keyboard and load it in the SUV.

Note to bsntn99:
I have had some correspondence with Tim Praskins at AZ Piano Wholesale. He’s currently listed in Casio’s Dealer Locator, but I don’t know if he’s allowed to sell Celvianos outside his territory. (Whatever his territory might be.) I’ll give him another call on Monday.

These territorial restrictions are a guaranteed Casio deal killer for me unless I can find someone I can buy a 650 from within the next couple of days.

Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140] #2029941 02/09/13 04:16 PM
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Bill,
As mentioned getting a AP-650 in the next few days will be very challenging. I appreciate your interest in our product but they are pretty tough to get right now.

As I said above for service, we do have companies that work with us to do warranty service in your home.


-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140] #2029955 02/09/13 04:47 PM
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DBill,

FWIW... I live near a large city in California and the nearest Casio service center is 3 hours away. The nearest Kawai dealer is also about 3 hours away. My choices are pretty much limited to what I can find online. It seems like many of the top DPs are in heavy demand right now and have long lead times. Very frustrating.

I believe the Celvianos can only be sold by brick-and-mortar piano stores (which probably means paying MSRP).

I ended up ordering my DP from Guitar Center, knowing I can return it within 30 days if there are any issues with it. As far as the warranty goes, I'd hate to have to truck my DP 3 hours to have it serviced... I'm sure the in-home service costs extra?

One thing you might want to look at is getting a DP at your local Guitar Center (if you have one) and paying the extra $100 for their in-house extended warranty.

Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: poggler] #2029980 02/09/13 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by poggler
I'm sure the in-home service costs extra?


No. If you live in large city in California, I'm certain there is a close service center. Regardless in home service on Celviano products is included with your warranty.


-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill] #2029981 02/09/13 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DBill
Casio has a web page at http://www.casio-usa.com/support/musicservicecenters that at least gives you drop off locations if you need repair work. For me, the closest location would be a 3-hour drive (each way) from my home in Colorado to Gallup, NM. Not exactly “on site” service, but for me at least, it would be feasible to disconnect the keyboard and load it in the SUV.

Note to bsntn99:
I have had some correspondence with Tim Praskins at AZ Piano Wholesale. He’s currently listed in Casio’s Dealer Locator, but I don’t know if he’s allowed to sell Celvianos outside his territory. (Whatever his territory might be.) I’ll give him another call on Monday.

These territorial restrictions are a guaranteed Casio deal killer for me unless I can find someone I can buy a 650 from within the next couple of days.


I have spoken to Tim Praskins, at length, and I am quite sure he can have a AP-650 delivered to your door.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: bsntn99] #2030021 02/09/13 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bsntn99
I'll jump in here as someone newer to the forum. I was ready to buy an AP-650 as well, but the late release in the US versus other countries, which is not a good business strategy, had me move on to a Kawai CN-34. I got a killer price right after christmas as the dealer was clearing out stock, but still more expensive than the AP-650 would have been.


Kawai America has been the slowest off the block as far as Kawai subsidiaries go. They were way behind the Asian and European units when it came to announcing and shipping the new and shiny CN consoles.

Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: ONfrank] #2030046 02/09/13 08:50 PM
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Would there be in home warranty service (in Philly and South Jersey for example) on the PX780 and PX850? Or is it strictly for the Celviano series?


Kawai Es8
Korg Krome 61
Yamaha P125
Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: Mike_Martin] #2030056 02/09/13 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_Martin
Originally Posted by poggler
I'm sure the in-home service costs extra?


No. If you live in large city in California, I'm certain there is a close service center. Regardless in home service on Celviano products is included with your warranty.


Hi Mike,

That's great news about the warranty thanks. I had no idea the Celvianos carried in-home service with their warranty. Not that it's expected they need it because I've heard the mfg quality on the Casios is pretty good.

I found a music store that sold Celvianos (odd I think there's only one in my area) and they only had the AP-420. One thing that was a little concerning was the height under the keys. I noticed in the specs the height is listed as 32.9 for the 420 and 35.9 for the 650 (which I'm interested in). The 420 was a little snug (I'm 6'1"). Do you know if the space under the keys where your legs go was raised at all?

I currently have an px850 on order but it's not due to arrive until the beginning of March. I'm a little concerned because the height is listed as about 32.9 inches for the main unit. Probably more like the ap-420. As my order has been marinating, I've started leaning towards the Celviano line. Especially with the service warranty and possible height difference in the AP-650.

Is the space under the Celvianos and Privias a standard height? Have you heard any complaints by tallish people?

Edit: Rant... trying to get price quotes on the AP-650 is very difficult. Wish these were sold online.


Last edited by poggler; 02/09/13 09:49 PM.
Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: andy0140] #2030121 02/09/13 11:05 PM
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I haven't been able to get a firm price quote either, but we can probably make a pretty good guess. I have seen quotes for the AP 250 at $400 under the MSRP. The 650 has a published MSRP of $1999. If you take $400 off the $1999, it leaves a street price of $1599.

I was originally estimating $1500 for the AP 650 based on "free market" competition, but it now appears that the price will dictated by Casio. Thus the best guess for the AP 650 looks like it will be about $1599. I think Casio has told potential retailers to not include the AP 650 in local discounts so there will probably be a uniform price for all dealerships.

Re: Casio AP-650 [Re: DBill] #2030204 02/10/13 02:15 AM
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I think you can expect the AP-650 to sell somewhere between $1599-1699. I'm basing this on the fact that most PX-X50 Privias saw a $100 increase in the street price when they came out. The PX-850 seems to be selling for right around what the PX-830 did $1099. I think there was a choice of cabinets on the 830 which ran a bit more for polished finish. The Celviano 650 is the top end model however, with 250 sounds, rhythms, accompaniment, ect. There is 256 poly, a lid simulator, and string resonance. The sound system is also beefed up. Casio appears to be testing the waters with the $1999 MSRP, but I would expect it to street for $200-300 less.

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