Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
109 registered members (agraffe, Almaviva, Amin7b5, accordeur, ando, anamnesis, 28 invisible), 1,875 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2027008 - 02/04/13 05:25 PM Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 68
88slowpoke Offline
Full Member
88slowpoke  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 68
RI
Do any beginners out there learning on their own without a teacher have any experience with these videos? I've found some good reports, as well as a raspberry or two, but the excerpts seem encouraging. Since they are quite expensive, some feedback from forum members would be greatly appreciated.

They do seem to contradict the standard advice, e.g. to hold your hands as if holding a ball or bubble. So, who's right?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2027015 - 02/04/13 05:41 PM Re: Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky [Re: 88slowpoke]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,446
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Derulux  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,446
Philadelphia
I think some of the things discussed, like the "ball", are semantics. They're saying the same thing, but using different language in order to get their precise meaning across. Sometimes, pretending to hold a ball can lead students to "grip" like they would grip a ball they were holding. I think that's immediately noticeable and easily corrected, but that's just a really simple example.

I don't know if I ever brought it up in this forum, but I did study with Bob Durso in Philly for 5 years. Best experience I ever had with the piano, and the fastest growth as a pianist, other than the day I learned where "Middle C" was. wink

As for the "raspberries" you hear: I would say the vast majority of them come from people who have never studied with a Taubman teacher. I obviously haven't spoken to everyone who has, but I've never heard anyone who actually studied with one tell me they had a bad experience. Not even a bad day. And every one of them swears by the program.

For my part, I'm a little more reserved in my enthusiasm, not because it doesn't work--it does work--but because I tend to take a more conservative, scientific/academic approach to everything.

I'd be happy to talk in more detail about it if you want, or there are several other forum members who've studied the Taubman approach (some of whom still study with Bob, whom I mentioned earlier). Just shoot me a PM. Be happy to help. smile


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#2029194 - 02/08/13 08:55 AM Re: Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky [Re: 88slowpoke]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,590
jdw Offline
1000 Post Club Member
jdw  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,590
Philadelphia, PA
I've had a great experience with my Taubman teacher, but I'm inclined to think it could be hard as a beginner to work just with the videos. There's some great stuff in them, but they're not really intended to address someone starting from scratch. I would put the money toward lessons with a good Taubman teacher if at all possible.



1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
Haydn, Sonata Hob. XVI: 19
Chopin, Waltz in E minor (op. posth.)
Schubert, Op. 90 no. 2
#2029209 - 02/08/13 09:46 AM Re: Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky [Re: 88slowpoke]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
Louis Podesta Offline
500 Post Club Member
Louis Podesta  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
88slowpoke:
Shhh, and please don't tell anybody, but the Taubman tapes are available through your local library Interlibrary Loan program "ILL." And, it is FREE!

My coach is Dr. Thomas Mark, who was a Taubman practice coach, and also a student of Golandsky and Durso. His book, "What Every Pianist Needs To Know About The Body" is one of the most recommended technique texts in the world. Thomas takes the Taubman technique to the next level by incorporating Alexander Technique principles into it.

One of the basic drawbacks of the Taubman philosophy is its over-emphasis on forearm rotation. She and Golandsky constantly use the phrase "rotate the forearm and the rest of the arm will follow." This is idiocy.

Dr. Mark teaches that the basic goal is to effortlessly move the arm, both laterally and in and out, in order to position oneself over the particular keys to be played.

Even though rotation is valuable in many situations, building one's entire technique around it can prevent a student from ever attaining any real speed at the piano, which is the standard "knock" against Taubman and Golandsky.

Finally, there is a very short beginners book available from Golandsky's website, or also through ILL.

Good luck, and if you can ever make it up to Portland OR, take a lesson from Thomas Mark and it will change your life forever!

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2029513 - 02/08/13 09:48 PM Re: Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky [Re: 88slowpoke]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,590
jdw Offline
1000 Post Club Member
jdw  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,590
Philadelphia, PA
I know that Mark did study with Durso. I have to admit that I haven't read his book, but I do want to clarify something based on my understanding of Taubman technique. It's true that rotation is a basic foundation, but in my experience (including work with both Durso and Golandsky) no one has ever claimed that rotation would take care of everything. In fact, the essence of Taubman technique is the integration of the various different components of coordinated movement.

Note, only the first in the 10-video series is about rotation. Others deal with such subjects as in and out movement, "walking hand and arm" (i.e. lateral and vertical movement of the arm), shaping movements of the hand, etc. I think a lot of people never get past the starting point and don't realize that there's a lot more to it. I hate to see Taubman and Golandsky blamed for people's misunderstanding of their work.

ILL for the tapes/videos is a good suggestion.


1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
Haydn, Sonata Hob. XVI: 19
Chopin, Waltz in E minor (op. posth.)
Schubert, Op. 90 no. 2
#2029614 - 02/09/13 02:33 AM Re: Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky [Re: jdw]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
Louis Podesta Offline
500 Post Club Member
Louis Podesta  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
To 88slowpoke and all other adult beginners, I offer the following advice:

1) The first thing that is done with any major piano instruction program is the introduction to what I term "the gods." That means that you are told that this piano god or that piano god did this, studied under them, or performed this Herculian feat of wonder.

2) The next step is to introduce you to their "system," wherein if you spend roughly 20 years of your life, you will maybe be able to play the piano for friends at a party., and finally,

3) You spend the money each week, or month to attain said goal.

After all is said and done, as pointed out to me personally by Thomas Mark, learning to play the piano is nothing more than choreography of the body and the hands.

So, instead of laying out $900 on a set of unbelievably boring tapes (that will cure yours' or anyone else's insomnia), please go to your library, get the tapes, get Thomas Mark's book, and then let your own body and a whole lot of common sense do the rest.

Enclosed for your perusal is the link to the Taubman tapes website, wherein they enumerate and explain the instruction associated with each tape.

Also, www. pianomap.com is the website for Dr. Mark, which goes into extensive and well thought out detail on the logic associated with his book.

Good luck 88slowpoke, and above all, stay away from the"hype" as much as possible. It has nothing to do with learning how to play this great and wonderful instrument.

Do I use many of these aforesaid technique principles every day at the piano? Of course, I do. Do I have photographs of Dorothy Taubman, Edna Golandsky or Thomas Mark on my wall next to the piano? Of course, I do not!

LHP

http://www.taubman-tapes.com/DVD_Contents.html


#2029695 - 02/09/13 08:11 AM Re: Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky [Re: 88slowpoke]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,099
WiseBuff Offline
1000 Post Club Member
WiseBuff  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,099
Brighton Colorado
Yesterday at the 10th annual Metropolitan State University of Denver Piano Celebration, we had Robert Durso as our master class teacher. No, I didn't play in the master class, but I learned a lot from watching.

Mr. Durso attended Peabody Conservatory and has a Masters degree in from Temple. He studied with Ms. Taubman and is co-founder of the Golandsky Institute at Princeton. MORE than that however, is the practical and sensible discussion of body dynamics that he shared (evolving from Taubman). Working with 5 different performers he demonstrated with them how those principles made a musical difference to each of the 5 already excellent performances of advanced repertoire. Maybe it was his attitude of acceptance of the student and gentle inquiry into how the playing "felt" that I appreciated. Maybe it was how working on a few measures in the piece made such a difference in tone and mood.

It is a level of detail that most of us rarely attend to. I imagine the principles would be good to begin with as foundation. As one who suffers both from tension and difficulty getting a piece up to tempo, these practical points on how to make the body work effortlessly look very inviting. The thought of sitting through boring tapes doesn't do much for me but maybe a session or two with a Taubman disciple wouldn't hurt.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Wise as in learner
Buff as in Colorado Buffalo
#2029737 - 02/09/13 09:36 AM Re: Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky [Re: 88slowpoke]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,590
jdw Offline
1000 Post Club Member
jdw  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,590
Philadelphia, PA
"Choreography of the Hands" is the title of a documentary on the work of Dorothy Taubman. For the curious, it's posted on Youtube at http://www.youtube.com/user/urwyke/videos.


1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
Haydn, Sonata Hob. XVI: 19
Chopin, Waltz in E minor (op. posth.)
Schubert, Op. 90 no. 2
#2031454 - 02/11/13 09:02 PM Re: Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky [Re: 88slowpoke]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 14,404
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 14,404
Canada
Originally Posted by 88slowpoke

They do seem to contradict the standard advice, e.g. to hold your hands as if holding a ball or bubble. So, who's right?

That advice stopped being standard a long time ago.

#2031500 - 02/11/13 11:15 PM Re: Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky [Re: keystring]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
Louis Podesta Offline
500 Post Club Member
Louis Podesta  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
88slowpoke:

This is the difference between the logic of Thomas Mark's book, "What Every Pianist Should Know About The Body" and the mostly non-existent technique text books that are out there. And, please remember, Thomas Mark is a PhD. degreed logican philosopher out of Columbia University.

So, sitting there at your keyboard, put your two hands in your lap, and then slowly raise them up with both hands straight out equal to a plane with with your elbows. You do this with no contraction of your hands or fingers.

This is done utilizing the natural physical weigth of the the arm, forearm, and hand remaining constant. Then, look at the natural shape of your hand.

This, sitting back with a normal relaxed erect posture, with the forearm at the same geometric plane as the keypad, is the natural shape of the hand.

You do not "form" the hand, but you, instead, let the natural weight of the arm, forearm, and hand, shape the hand.

Next, as taught by Tobias Matthay, well over one hundred years ago, you articulate the fingers with no more than this kinesiology in place.

Specific, to Taubman, Golandsky, and Mark, you do not outstretch, flex, and form the hand. And you do not pronate the hand. You move your arm, position your hand over the keys, and then, utilizing the the natural weight, articulate the fingers.

Shh, all of Tobias Matthay's books are available throught ILL for free!


#2031858 - 02/12/13 02:36 PM Re: Dorothy Taubman/ Edna Golandsky [Re: 88slowpoke]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
Louis Podesta Offline
500 Post Club Member
Louis Podesta  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
88slowpoke and all others:

My apologies for not properly entering the URL for Dr. Thomas Mark's website. It is http://www.pianomap.com.

In terms of an analysis of whole body piano technique, it is unsurpassed.

Besides, his first book, "What Every Pianist Needs To Know About The Body," he has a brand new work entitled "Motion, Emotion, and Love: The Nature of Artistic Performance."

It is a very advanced philosophical analysis/narrative relating to all aspects of piano performance.

LHP


Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

UK Members
Please check in
UK Members & Friends
Checking on our members and friends from the UK. Please Check In When Able
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
More? Or less?
by Jolly. 05/23/17 09:10 PM
1985 Kawai KG-2D
by saltshaker. 05/23/17 08:56 PM
Kawai RX1 or RX3 grand piano?
by yyjean. 05/23/17 06:51 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics179,850
Posts2,629,243
Members87,859
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Report Problems With New Forums
Report Problems with New Forums Here!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0