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Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: musicmad] #2027900
02/06/13 07:22 AM
02/06/13 07:22 AM
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bennevis Offline
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While on the subject of big grands, I believe the Fazioli F308 is the longest, but Stuart & Sons concert grand 290 (102 keys) is the broadest at 1.75m/5' 9'' among production pianos.

Would anyone like to 'improve' on those? wink


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: musicmad] #2027925
02/06/13 08:31 AM
02/06/13 08:31 AM
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Michael_99 Offline
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I am ignorant. I know what an upright is. What is a piano that opens up whether it be 4 feet for 9 feet long?

The funny thing is that no matter how much the condo/apt costs - millions or billions, people complain about pianos being played!

Don't 7, 9 foot pianos cost hundreds of thousands of dollars? What joe who plays a piano has that kind of money, huh? What average joe has a house that can accommodate a 7 foot piano? Rich people, of couse, can and do.

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: Michael_99] #2027933
02/06/13 08:53 AM
02/06/13 08:53 AM
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JoelW Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael_99
I am ignorant. I know what an upright is. What is a piano that opens up whether it be 4 feet for 9 feet long?

The funny thing is that no matter how much the condo/apt costs - millions or billions, people complain about pianos being played!

Don't 7, 9 foot pianos cost hundreds of thousands of dollars? What joe who plays a piano has that kind of money, huh? What average joe has a house that can accommodate a 7 foot piano? Rich people, of couse, can and do.


Hahaha... almost! A good 7 foot Steinway usually goes for 30-40 thousand. Not 'hundreds of thousands'. smile

And much less for a good 7 foot Yamaha. You could grab one of those for around 15-22 thousand. Obviously this ain't cheap but it's a lot better than hundreds of thousands!

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: musicmad] #2027935
02/06/13 09:00 AM
02/06/13 09:00 AM
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Posts: 192
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musicmad Offline OP
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OP here. To put it in perspective i was referring to a Baby Grand medium 6- 1/2 compared to a full Concert Grand 9-feet.

In your opinion what would be the overall benefit in sound and performance recording on a full Concert Grand as opposed to a medium Baby Grand ? I ask because I've been given the option to record on either both these pianos.

After trialing the two I'm more comfortable with the Baby Grand giving a more authentic ambiance feel upfront that overall suits my style of music. That being said the Concert Grand is a beast being to over powerful with a completely different attack being difficult to express that gentle touch.

As btb quoted,

Quote
But is "bigger” better"


Without music life would be a mistake.
Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: musicmad] #2027943
02/06/13 09:11 AM
02/06/13 09:11 AM
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Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by musicmad
OP here. To put it in perspective i was referring to a Baby Grand medium 6- 1/2 compared to a full Concert Grand 9-feet.

In your opinion what would be the overall benefit in sound and performance recording on a full Concert Grand as opposed to a medium Baby Grand ? I ask because I've been given the option to record on either both these pianos.

After trialing the two I'm more comfortable with the Baby Grand giving a more authentic ambiance feel upfront that overall suits my style of music. That being said the Concert Grand is a beast being to over powerful with a completely different attack being difficult to express that gentle touch.

As btb quoted,

Quote
But is "bigger” better"


If you prefer one over the other, why ask those who have never played either piano? It is quite possible the smaller grand is better than the concert, and you would know best what your music sounds like on it. A lot has to do with the brand and the maintenance of each. Generally speaking, however, the larger the grand, the clearer the bass notes and more room for dynamic contrast.

Can you record the same piece (or a segment of one) on each piano and compare the recordings before deciding?


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: JoelW] #2028049
02/06/13 01:07 PM
02/06/13 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Hahaha... almost! A good 7 foot Steinway usually goes for 30-40 thousand....

Actually about double!

But you're right, it's not hundreds of thousands.

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: musicmad] #2028050
02/06/13 01:08 PM
02/06/13 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by musicmad
OP here. To put it in perspective i was referring to a Baby Grand medium 6- 1/2....

Everybody take note. grin

When you see "baby grand," you can't assume. Even my liberal upper border of 6'3" didn't cover it!

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: musicmad] #2028086
02/06/13 01:53 PM
02/06/13 01:53 PM
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JoelW Offline
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Yeah, I wouldn't exactly call 6'6 a baby grand... When I hear "baby grand" I think anything UNDER 6'.

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: Morodiene] #2028167
02/06/13 04:09 PM
02/06/13 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
....Generally speaking, however, the larger the grand, the clearer the bass notes and more room for dynamic contrast....

....and the richer the tone.

As per what you said, he should just judge according to how the pianos seem to him. But I'm guessing he was also wanting to learn some general things about different sized grands, and hopefully we've helped him do that.

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: musicmad] #2028171
02/06/13 04:14 PM
02/06/13 04:14 PM
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When it comes to pianos, generally bigger IS better... that's why we have 9' pianos anyway... If it wasn't so, we'd never have to build 9' pianos.

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: JoelW] #2028195
02/06/13 04:46 PM
02/06/13 04:46 PM
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San Jose, CA
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Originally Posted by JoelW
When it comes to pianos, generally bigger IS better... that's why we have 9' pianos anyway... If it wasn't so, we'd never have to build 9' pianos.


Bigger pianos are certainly better, because the strings are longer. That means 1) they don't have to be stretched as much to produce the same pitch, and 2) there's more metal resonating, which gives you a superior dynamic range and control. The same rule applies to uprights, which I probably should have considered before I bought my 120cm Schimmel. It definitely has soul to make up for the lack of power though.

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: jeffreyjones] #2028229
02/06/13 05:42 PM
02/06/13 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffreyjones
Originally Posted by JoelW
When it comes to pianos, generally bigger IS better... that's why we have 9' pianos anyway... If it wasn't so, we'd never have to build 9' pianos.


Bigger pianos are certainly better, because the strings are longer. That means 1) they don't have to be stretched as much to produce the same pitch, and 2) there's more metal resonating, which gives you a superior dynamic range and control. The same rule applies to uprights, which I probably should have considered before I bought my 120cm Schimmel. It definitely has soul to make up for the lack of power though.


I believe it's the opposite. The longer the string, the MORE is must be stretched to reach the same pitch, but this results in a rounder, more full tone. Am I wrong?

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: JoelW] #2028771
02/07/13 02:36 PM
02/07/13 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by jeffreyjones
Originally Posted by JoelW
When it comes to pianos, generally bigger IS better... that's why we have 9' pianos anyway... If it wasn't so, we'd never have to build 9' pianos.


Bigger pianos are certainly better, because the strings are longer. That means 1) they don't have to be stretched as much to produce the same pitch, and 2) there's more metal resonating, which gives you a superior dynamic range and control. The same rule applies to uprights, which I probably should have considered before I bought my 120cm Schimmel. It definitely has soul to make up for the lack of power though.


I believe it's the opposite. The longer the string, the MORE is must be stretched to reach the same pitch, but this results in a rounder, more full tone. Am I wrong?


You are correct. And now that I do more reading, it seems that because of this increased tension, the bass strings on concert grands have a lighter gauge than those of smaller instruments. The goal of piano makers is to use strings as long, as tense, and yet also as light as possible (for elasticity).

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...a%20high%20tension%20str.html#Post909463

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: Mark_C] #2028895
02/07/13 06:41 PM
02/07/13 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
IMO all we can be sure of 'with a reasonable degree of certainty' is up to about 6'3.


Man 6/3 is Baldwin L territory. Not what I'd call "baby" by any stretch. But I've had family ask if my 7' Yamaha is a baby grand, so what do I know smile

Last edited by jawhitti; 02/07/13 06:41 PM.
Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: Morodiene] #2028899
02/07/13 06:45 PM
02/07/13 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
I call my 9' Petrof my "big baby"


I call my 7-footer "Vincent" or "Victor" depending on my mood, but my wife calls it "the monstrosity" either way.

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: musicmad] #2028912
02/07/13 07:07 PM
02/07/13 07:07 PM
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I think any specific guess(like up to 6'3" or any other number) about what the general public calls a baby grand is speculation and just silly.

As far as the other classifications go, most people are unfamiliar with terms like parlor grand, semi concert grand, and concert grand. Non pianists often don't even know the difference between a grand and a vertical.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 02/07/13 07:15 PM.
Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: jawhitti] #2029074
02/08/13 01:09 AM
02/08/13 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jawhitti
Originally Posted by Mark_C
IMO all we can be sure of 'with a reasonable degree of certainty' is up to about 6'3.

Man 6/3 is Baldwin L territory. Not what I'd call "baby" by any stretch. But I've had family ask if my 7' Yamaha is a baby grand, so what do I know smile

Exactly! ha

And heck, the OP here was talking about a six-and-a-half-foot when he said baby grand!

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: pianoloverus] #2029077
02/08/13 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think any specific guess(like up to 6'3" or any other number) about what the general public calls a baby grand is speculation and just silly....

Yes indeed -- because I'm the one who said it. ha

Sure, it's speculation, but it's not silly. It's based on experience. And, assuming you know how to read fairly well ha if you go back, you'll see that what I was really saying was that because of the varied concepts of the term, we have essentially no idea what someone means by it. The "6'3" figure I gave wasn't any assertion; it was to say that if you want to guess at all what someone means, you absolutely can't have any confidence that someone means a piano of any lesser size than that.

I await your apology. grin

Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: pianoloverus] #2029088
02/08/13 01:53 AM
02/08/13 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
[...]Non pianists often don't even know the difference between a grand and a vertical.


As the saying goes, they just don't know which way is up!

Cheers!


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Re: Concert Grand Or Baby Grand ??? [Re: musicmad] #2030676
02/10/13 06:28 PM
02/10/13 06:28 PM
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(Hamburg) Steinway A-188 (cm) is considered the smallest concert grand. Steinways 180 downwards are called 'Stutzflügel', don't ask me how to translate this into English.
A-188 have already a very balanced sound, although for an average smaller concert hall, I would always recommend a Steinway B-211.
Grands which are shorter than an A-188 often have almost to no sound on the high strings, because they're just too short to vibrate well.

But the length of a grand doesn't only influence the sound, also the action feels quite different, if you play an A-188 / B-211 or a D-270. C-230 are not very popular around here, their action is often considered to feel a bit unbalanced.

By the way, here in Europe, a new Hamburg Steinway B-211 costs over a hundred-thousand $...



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