Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Who are we fooling - digitals are junk at this juncture

I fear you might be right, the same data rate over USB as over MIDI - pity.

One thing though, I'm fairly sure that it's 31.25k (bits) rather than K (bytes). If I remember correctly it takes approx 1 millisec to send a 3-byte MIDI message (e.g. note-on = [9x, pitch, velocity])

You are correct. It's one bit every 32 µS.

That's what I get for doing an off the cuff calculation. Technically it would be 31.25 Kilobaud/s since it's 32 µS per symbol (MIDI doesn't specify how a bit is encoded, i.e. how the electrical interface works, it just requires that you're able to transmit one bit every 32 µS)

It was specified to be 31.25 kBit/s since it's an exact division of 1 MHz and since most small microprocessors run at an integral MHz value it can be easily derived from the clock of the microcontroller.

Midi messages consist of three byte (one for the status and two for the data), the first bit of each byte designates its purpose (status or data) and there are seven bit to encode the content. Each byte is framed by a strat and a stop bit.

Therefore each Midi byte consists of ten bit so a standard MIDI message would take 960 µS

I've read all the VAX77 ad materials. I'd love to hear from someone who has bought one and played it a lot.

I don't think it's a conspiracy, though markets don't always operate like the perfectly competitive capitalist ideal. Probably more laziness, old engineers, MIDI mindset, don't rock the boat, the crap we make is selling fine, paranoid schizophrenic corporate risk aversion, etc.

Much innovation these days is performed by small start-ups, which are formed with the intent of being bought out / swallowed up by a larger industry player (if only to quash the innovation and own the patents). The big guys are seemingly incapable of doing anything really new. Maybe because they attract mediocre employees who need to get their kids through college, healthcare (in the US), and maybe a big screen TV or two, and are run by professional jet setting golfers.

The bigger issue is that the established companies are selling real instruments too.

If Yamaha or Kawai built the 'perfect' digital piano for an affordable price then probably no one except for professional musicians, concert halls and nostalgics would buy real instruments.

They'd basically totally destroy their owm > $10.000 market

Yes, and many of these may be "fooled", believing the sales pitch of the DP industry, particularly (3) where parents want to get a cheap piano for their kids.

I think that's sad because many kids will turn away from playing piano because the DP does not inspire to play.

Nothing to stop Korg, Nord, Casio or Roland trying to produce such an instrument though, is there?

.....as for the argument that children would be put off by uninspiring DPs - I really doubt that that is true, in general. The alternative to a Clavinova, Kawai CA or Roland HP digital would in many or most cases be a truly dreadful and often un-tunable upright acoustic....remember the acoustic-only days?

"If Yamaha or Kawai built the 'perfect' digital piano for an affordable price .. ."

That day may be soon upon us. Already the sounds of digitals are becoming harder to digest . .. It`ll have to be Ebay for my next purchese! .. . .

When we find fault in pianos and then decide that the manufacturer is holding back improvements that you and I might want ... we have to remember that neither you nor I represent the whole market. The maker wants to show a profit, and he must sell products to satisfy the market. It seems that plenty of people are satisfied with the current product lines, so what is there to drive change?

Most of the arguments here about digital versus acoustic pianos were said also about electric guitars when they first hit the scene. And sorry I know quit a few young people that learned on digital pianos before they got an acoustic grand. Weren't inspired? Then why did they stick with it?

True, a friend of mine bought a V-Piano because it fitted exactly the gap between the floor and the short leg of his wobbly coffee table.

I understand perfectly.

I bought my V-Piano because its colours matched exactly the colours of my hi-fi speakers' grills, down to the metalled silver logos. And in the fashion world that year, 2010, black was the new white (or should that be the new black?). And I had nothing else in my flat (apartment) that was black.

But I believe that was a good, rational reason for buying a DP. (It also happens to play quite well, despite my best efforts.....).

Gvfarns, Dewster, questions to Your previous posts:

1. AP-s apply one single sensor for key ON velocity measurement: the string itself when hit by the hammer.

The velocity is the integrated kinetic energy gathered from the a whole complex pressure force applied to the moving key.

Damper up should be simulated mechanically by the DPs action. (And measured accurately at the striking point by two very near positioned sensors.)

2. Damper movement. It is an interesting point. Do we have for this a MIDI event at all? I cannot remember whether even a 3 sensor action could deliver an event for damper up. (NOTE ON 0 ?). String/Damper Noises + SR should be controlled by this event.

If this is the case, it is a much more obvious shortcoming with current MIDI then ultimate accuracy due to the lack of continouos measurement.

A shame it's saddled with MIDI. Even high-res MIDI velocity doesn't paint the whole picture of what's going on. A VAX77 with internal fully sampled pianos that bypass the MIDI nonsense might seriously kill. Though I'm not a big fan of it folding in half (when folded the exposed middle keys look really fragile).

Don't get me wrong re MIDI, it's really OK for a lot of keyboard / piano centric stuff. But IMO its bandwidth is too limited to take control realism to the next level.

So here's a question. You try ABC piece on piano XYZ and it's not to your satisfaction. Isn't the same true of any acoustic piano? That top notch classical piece is going to sound like cow dung on a spinet. Heck, at the highest levels, you're going to find pianists who'll tell you that this particular Steinway is lousy for that piece, but this other Steinway that's the exact same model but rolled out of the factory a week later is perfect for it.

Or from the other direction, you want to play some 1800's saloon music. Don't you want a twangy old upright instead of a concert grand?

I'm not going to claim that DPs have caught up to the quality of the best pianos in the world. I'm simply suggesting that no piano-like instrument of any quality or price can satisfy the performance needs for all compositions and performers.

tom

It's much more economical and space efficient to build a collection of DPs versus a collection of APs!

not necessary when you stack them on each other.

I have both and I use them for different purposes.

However, the reason I bought a my DP to begin with was so I didn't have to play many of the AP's that I regularly encounter. I am occasionally asked to play for various programs here and there but I am not a concert pianist and the places I play do NOT have decent Acoustic pianos. Small, poor churches for weddings, funerals etc, various background music situations in city hall meeting rooms, library conference rooms and - well - you get the idea. The pianos in those places are typically not maintained or tuned at all. As a result, my Roland FP7 with some small speakers is a FAR better instrument than those.

A good AP will be better that a DP but the key word is 'good'. There are some horrendously terrible pianos out there and even a mediocre DP like my FP7 is much better. The statement that any AP is better than any DP is just ridiculous.

In my experience, most of my audiences don't even differentiate. To them they are just pianos and the music sounds good or it doesn't. The music played and the pianist are the main things they notice.

However, I love my old G7, it's just REALLY REALLY hard to cart around with my Honda Accord. Maybe if I put wheels on it?

>However, I love my old G7, it's just REALLY REALLY hard to cart around with my Honda Accord. Maybe if I put wheels on it?

Probably it already HAS wheels :p You only need to connect a towbar to the G7 !

I'll just add my personal experience to some of the very good point already made. I have owned DP, Synths, and fine acoustic pianos.

They are just different instruments. Period. Comparing an acoustic piano with a DP is for now, a bogus thing to do. They are miles apart. At least for a classical piano player as myself.

Touch, sound... The similarity is nowhere to be seen. Try playing Chopin Op. 25 on a DP.

Of course, I mean playing, for practice they are quite OK. I don't agree they are good for the beginners. Affordable? Sure. But the hand/sound connection is just not there (yet), and IMVHO, this is the most important point about playing an instrument.

Best,
E.