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Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2026083
02/02/13 10:45 PM
02/02/13 10:45 PM
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Atlanta, GA
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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
The Baldwin 9' from 1910 to somewhere in the 1920,s or 30,s
That era was Baldwin model D. I wonder where they thought of that?


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Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2026420
02/03/13 05:13 PM
02/03/13 05:13 PM
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Karl Watson Online content
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Dear Ed McM:

You are quite right, it was Andrei Svelichtny. I met him once and found him to be charming. He was totally submerged in his work and seemed to live through every aspect of the piano's action and tone. He gave the impression of being an absolute genius of piano tech. I've never heard or PLAYED an SD-10 with the sound and sensitivity of the instruments that he prepared.

I'm quite confused when people assert that SD-6 or SD-10 makes not difference and that it is the characteristic, family tone that is their bond. I'm afraid I don't hear it. I've played many SD-6s, and they have ALL had a strong family resemblance. Most of the SD-10s that I've played have reminded me strongly of Asian pianos of the second rank. BUT, I'm aware that they CAN be good with careful regulation, just not especially Baldwin-ish, at least to my poor old ears and feeble fingers.

I admire and appreciate your contributions to this forum, Ed, where ever and when ever I read them.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt] #2026488
02/03/13 06:57 PM
02/03/13 06:57 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Mr. Watson,

Has the original question penetrated your closed mind? The OP has a lead on an SD-10. Do you feel it does any service to him to slam the instrument and basically tell him to go shop for an SD-6? If you think that an SD-10 is a lesser piano than "Asian pianos of the second rank," you are totally unequipped to make any judgement, whatsoever.

I don't know what your gripe is, but you sure are rude.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2026498
02/03/13 07:24 PM
02/03/13 07:24 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,386
New York City
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Mr. Watson,

Has the original question penetrated your closed mind? The OP has a lead on an SD-10. Do you feel it does any service to him to slam the instrument and basically tell him to go shop for an SD-6? If you think that an SD-10 is a lesser piano than "Asian pianos of the second rank," you are totally unequipped to make any judgement, whatsoever.

I don't know what your gripe is, but you sure are rude.
Except he hasn't been rude in the slightest. He simply gave his view of the two Baldwins. You disagree with it but another knowledgeable poster basically agreed with him. Your last post, however, is clearly and undeniably rude.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 02/04/13 09:15 AM.
Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: pianoloverus] #2026521
02/03/13 08:37 PM
02/03/13 08:37 PM
Joined: May 2012
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Rochester MN
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Mr. Watson,

Has the original question penetrated your closed mind? The OP has a lead on an SD-10. Do you feel it does any service to him to slam the instrument and basically tell him to go shop for an SD-6? If you think that an SD-10 is a lesser piano than "Asian pianos of the second rank," you are totally unequipped to make any judgement, whatsoever.

I don't know what your gripe is, but you sure are rude.
Except he hasn't been rude in the slightest. He simply gave his view of the two Baldwins. You disagree with it but another poster basically agreed with him. Your last post, however, is clearly and undeniably rude.


Yes, I intended it to be rude to Mr. Watson as he has been so dismissive of my opinion. Neither he, nor you, know of what I hear in any given instrument. Judge ye not.

Mr. Watson was rude in not considering the OP's reason for this thread and threw out opinions which provided no information for the OP.

This is not a thread about the merits of various Baldwin models. It is a thread about the potential purchase of a specific piano.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2026574
02/03/13 11:09 PM
02/03/13 11:09 PM
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It's difficult to understand all this vitriol or to know how to reply to it. The vehemence and intensity expressed are quite beyond my ability to grasp. I suppose one should just slip away quietly and avoid posting one's opinion in future.

My father always maintained that a gentleman was one who did the gracious thing. If it is my responsibility to apologise for having given offense, I do so now, and sincerely.

This is such a wonderful forum, affording a unique opportunity to exchange information and to learn. I would not want to contribute to any confusion or fuzzy thinking.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island

Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt] #2026636
02/04/13 01:27 AM
02/04/13 01:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
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Seattle, WA USA
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Karl, I enjoyed your comments and hope the "rougher" hands on the computer keyboard who post here do not drive you away.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt] #2026648
02/04/13 02:20 AM
02/04/13 02:20 AM
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Hmmm.... So they're going to be asking around $20K when it's done. If they haven't started on it, perhaps ask what they'd want for it in as-is condition right now.

If you can buy it that way and have the work done on your nickel to your taste, that may be a more cost effective way of turning it into the piano you want. You may even have them do the work, but by being the owner rather than a potential customer, you'll get it done your way, and they don't have to front the capital investment in the work. Perhap a win-win.

Having a 9 ft myself (Knabe from 1929), I'd love to be able to say, just go for it, they're wonderful. But, of course, use common sense. If your independent tech OK's the deal and the price is right, then go for it, they're wonderful to have at home. I've never regretted having mine.

Last edited by JohnSprung; 02/04/13 02:25 AM.

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Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt] #2026770
02/04/13 08:58 AM
02/04/13 08:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,576
Pennsylvania
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Rudeness, perceived or not, does not excuse more rudeness. There is no excuse for anyone on here being rude to anyone else.


Ken

Hammond Organ Technician
Piano Torturer
Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2026808
02/04/13 09:58 AM
02/04/13 09:58 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,386
New York City
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Yes, I intended it to be rude to Mr. Watson as he has been so dismissive of my opinion. Neither he, nor you, know of what I hear in any given instrument. Judge ye not.
He simply disagreed and was not at all dismissive. In fact, he was particularly nice in the way he expressed his disagreement. What "you hear" has nothing to do with what is an appropriate way to express your opinion about what you hear.

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Mr. Watson was rude in not considering the OP's reason for this thread and threw out opinions which provided no information for the OP.

This is not a thread about the merits of various Baldwin models. It is a thread about the potential purchase of a specific piano.
Mr. Watson was not rude at all to anyone. The idea that any thread has to remain 100% focused on the exact questions in the opening post is very silly. The huge majority of threads at PW would be considered "rude" used that criteria. In this case, the mentioning of another related Baldwin model was actually very relevant and reasonable.


Last edited by pianoloverus; 02/04/13 11:04 AM.
Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: pianoloverus] #2026814
02/04/13 10:11 AM
02/04/13 10:11 AM
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Hunt Offline OP
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I thank each and everyone for his/her opinion. I stirred up quite a lot of attention on this one. As I said in my original post everytime I have posted on this forum the feedback has been great. A favorite story of mine is the 1st time I posted on here several years back asking about an old upright that I found at an estate sale that had a beautiful case but, needed a lot of work. It was not even playable.

The responses were: put it on the curb, take it outside and put a match to it, and so on. It was classic but, I didn't buy it either. From that time I have had 3 grands (not 9 footers) ending with my current 7' Y/C which I really love.

The store that has this piano is the store I bought the Young Chang from. They are an excellent music store with an extensive rebuilding department. They do top notch work. They guaranteed the Y/C for 1 year and will guarantee the 9' for 2 years. My piano technician, who used to rebuild pianos for this same music store I called the other day and asked him to keep his nose in the middle of it. He no longer works as a technician there but,he contracts out for the store to do work at people's homes. Thus, how I found him. Plus he is a heck of a pianist. He has a group called the Tony Thomas Trio.

To what extent the work is that will be done to this piano that is yet to be seen.

I like the idea of buying it as is and having someone like my technician do the work to it.

On the sd6 or sd10 discussion I don't know yet which it is but, I will certainly find out.

So, it is not a done deal yet I just have to see how the stars line up. Thanks again for the feedback and anymore is always appreciated.

Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt] #2026877
02/04/13 12:24 PM
02/04/13 12:24 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Rochester MN
Hi Hunt,

If it was indeed built in the mid to late 60's, it would be an SD-10. Despite the nitpicking and naysayers, it is a very fine piano. (IMNSHO)

Let us know how you decide to proceed.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Hunt] #2029063
02/07/13 11:43 PM
02/07/13 11:43 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,277
Tomball, Texas
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John Pels Offline
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Hmmm...pretty tough crowd! As I always tend to opine, evaluate each piano on its merits and act accordingly. I owned and rebuilt a 1912 D Baldwin. It was a wonderful instrument. I have played tons of SD6's, and most were marvelous. I have high hopes for a rebuild of an SD10 I presently own. I just find it too hard to dismiss out of hand any of the Baldwin 9 footers because of some perceived deficiencies or anomalies. My feeling is that if you can't get happy with an SD10, it's likely not the piano.

Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: John Pels] #2029087
02/08/13 12:50 AM
02/08/13 12:50 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,022
Phoenix, Arizona
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Originally Posted by John Pels
My feeling is that if you can't get happy with an SD10, it's likely not the piano.

thumb thumb thumb


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Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: John Pels] #2029154
02/08/13 04:44 AM
02/08/13 04:44 AM
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beethoven986 Offline
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Originally Posted by John Pels
My feeling is that if you can't get happy with an SD10, it's likely not the piano.


I've played a lot of 9' pianos that I absolutely hated.... and it wasn't me. Certainly an SD-10 can be great, but they often need quite a bit of help to get there, especially if they've spent the last 50 years as a university piano.

Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2029155
02/08/13 04:53 AM
02/08/13 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Despite the nitpicking and naysayers, it is a very fine piano. (IMNSHO)


I don't think anyone here denies that the SD-10 has a lot of potential. The concerns that have been expressed relate to the fact that this is a 50 year old university piano of unknown condition and fuzzy details about work to be done on it for a final sale price of $20,000.... an amount that will almost certainly not be enough to cover everything the piano needs to reach its full potential (keep in mind the dealer probably had to pay somewhere between $5,000-$10,000 for it to begin with). Since the OP already has a piano that he loves, he absolutely should be nitpicking.... this is a huge commitment, one that will be difficult to get rid of if he falls victim to buyer's remorse.

Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: beethoven986] #2029282
02/08/13 12:42 PM
02/08/13 12:42 PM
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Atlanta, GA
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Originally Posted by beethoven986
keep in mind the dealer probably had to pay somewhere between $5,000-$10,000 for it to begin with
I'm pretty sure it would be sub-$5k. I have an unrestored but playable SD6, post-University, and I'll sell it today for $5k. The cost is almost completely in the work performed. The value is completely in the outcome.


Sam Bennett
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Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: PianoWorksATL] #2029437
02/08/13 06:16 PM
02/08/13 06:16 PM
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beethoven986 Offline
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Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL
Originally Posted by beethoven986
keep in mind the dealer probably had to pay somewhere between $5,000-$10,000 for it to begin with
I'm pretty sure it would be sub-$5k. I have an unrestored but playable SD6, post-University, and I'll sell it today for $5k. The cost is almost completely in the work performed. The value is completely in the outcome.


You could very well be right. I was merely speculating. Since we don't know what condition it's in, I could see it just as easily be sub $5,000 as it could be $5,000-$10,000 though probably closer to $5,000. Either way, I think we agree that a $20,000 final price would probably not cover everything the piano needs to perform optimally.

Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: beethoven986] #2029615
02/09/13 01:35 AM
02/09/13 01:35 AM
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Tomball, Texas
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John Pels Offline
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"I've played a lot of 9' pianos that I absolutely hated.... and it wasn't me. Certainly an SD-10 can be great, but they often need quite a bit of help to get there, especially if they've spent the last 50 years as a university piano."

I've played lots of brand new 9 footers on the showroom floor that were junk. I have yet to play any Baldwin D, SD6 or SD10 that I felt that way about. I'm not so much worried about the piano being up to the task as I am the performer. The other part of being a university piano that gets no airplay is the fact that they CAN be better maintained than any of the other pianos in an institutional setting. I don't know how many different sets of hammers nor how many regulations I saw for stage pianos during my college years, but I DO know that none of the practice pianos got any.

Doom and gloom is all I ever hear at PW. It can be such a depressing place. Play the danged piano and go from there. Not everything needs to be restrung, not everything needs a bridge recapped. A new set of hammers properly shaped and installed and a decent regulation will go far towards making any instrument play and sound fabulous. Heck, my own piano needs hammers and a regulation and I still love playing it every day just for the ever loving glory of doing so. She's a cruel mistress that beckons every time I walk by.

Re: Opinions on a 9' Baldwin [Re: John Pels] #2029656
02/09/13 04:37 AM
02/09/13 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by John Pels
I've played lots of brand new 9 footers on the showroom floor that were junk. I have yet to play any Baldwin D, SD6 or SD10 that I felt that way about.


We have vastly different experiences, then (Baldwin in general). I've come across many of these Baldwins that sound like... harpsichords with a Mack truck feel. I think they can be great.... I chose an '80s SD-10 for my grad recitals over the house Steinway D, but they're often junk without divine intervention.

Originally Posted by John Pels
I'm not so much worried about the piano being up to the task as I am the performer.


That's fine. I worry about both, and more to the point, I don't think the piano should impede music making, and all to often, it does just that!


Originally Posted by John Pels
The other part of being a university piano that gets no airplay is the fact that they CAN be better maintained than any of the other pianos in an institutional setting. I don't know how many different sets of hammers nor how many regulations I saw for stage pianos during my college years, but I DO know that none of the practice pianos got any.


Universities vary widely with their piano policies. One of my alma maters had six Steinway Ds (four performance and two rehearsal) and all but one of them was probably used 10 hours a day and rather poor climate control. My second alma mater was almost tyrannical with hall use and good humidity control, and those pianos were indeed in great condition. Depending on how much work is done to this piano, it may not matter, but we can only speculate, so it is prudent to be cautious.

Originally Posted by John Pels
Doom and gloom is all I ever hear at PW. It can be such a depressing place. Play the danged piano and go from there. Not everything needs to be restrung, not everything needs a bridge recapped. A new set of hammers properly shaped and installed and a decent regulation will go far towards making any instrument play and sound fabulous.


Well, of course. Sometimes, it's the simplest things that make all the difference. Back in December, my new SF-10 client wanted me to do something to make the piano easier to play. I polished and lubricated the pins/capstans, sized the key bushings, and Teflon coated the knuckles. No fancy Stanwood TD.... just basic prep. The client was floored with the difference.


Originally Posted by John Pels
Heck, my own piano needs hammers and a regulation and I still love playing it every day just for the ever loving glory of doing so. She's a cruel mistress that beckons every time I walk by.


I'm glad you like yours. I need to call my tuner to come do some stuff to mine... oh, wait wink

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