Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Who are we fooling - digitals are junk at this juncture

Before I began to understand digital technology, I used to use marketing material for understanding. I tried to think verbal phrases give some serious orientation and insights into technology, such as "Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging (UPHI)" "SuperNatural (SN)" to "Imperfect Samples" (the latter one is the only true one). And I am a technologically trained person - which most buyers of a DP are definitely not.

... really?

I went to pick up some music yesterday and played a cheap baby grand by Pramberger (I've never heard of the brand, this store specializes more on DPs)... it made my ears bleed, and it felt horrible. Plus it was way more expensive than my DP.

I know you were just making a point, but I think despite it's downsides, a DP at least can provide a very consistent experience.

Everything is a trade off ... except for those purists who walk among us.

I grew up in the 1960's and there really wasn't much to choose from. The Fender Rhodes was introduced but was a monster to lug around. The Wurlitzer electric piano wasn't too bad but you really had to work when playing since the sound died so quickly. I bought a Yamaha CP25 or CP35 back in the 1980's and it was OK. I used a Roland A80 midi controller for many years and used all kinds of modules (and a sampler as well).

What we have today is pure gold by comparison for live work. A digital piano, even a hybrid, will never replace an acoustic but in some instances will actually sound better and will be easier to work with.

I'm fond of saying that keyboards (acoustic, electric, and hybrids) are just tools. For some folks their piano is a life long partner, for me it's just a tool to get a job done ... and I have a wandering eye. (I'm planning on going to the Messe and trying the AlphaPiano.)

Can we agree that both the acoustic and the DP have their place and serve different purposes for different people and not dis anyone? Just my two cents.
Play On!
H.K.

My opinion is based on my experience...
Play whatever, digital or acoustic, but spend more time doing music then talking about it

I mostly agree with this. If it weren't for Roland SuperNATURAL I'd almost completely agree with it.

At this point any non-toy DP should have:
1. A minimum of 4GB per piano voice (if sampled).
2. Resonance samples / algorithms that are quite obvious and believable.
3. Key position that is continuously sensed, not inferred from two or three switches.
4. A well designed speaker system (even if it is for nearfield use only).

Like most DPs, the SN sound seems to suffer badly when rendered via speakers instead of headphones. I'm starting to think the ideal DP speaker might be the open baffle type (as ChrisA advocated a while back).

The OP may have some more or less valid points but I didn't really like the tone of the post. Stirrin' it up a tad, aren't we?

Anyway, as I'm just getting into this world of piano playing, I can hardly talk from personal experience with various pianos' sound and touch, but although I'm getting a DP in the near future, this very thread made me take a little time and skim through pages of local shops selling acoustic uprights as those are the only other viable alternative given the circumstances.

What I've taken away is that money wouldn't really be the biggest issue -- I could probably get some relatively decent (although older) upright for about $2,000 - 3,000; that's less than I'm about to spend on the CA-95 from Kawai and I could get on with the shopping right now. The real deal-breakers for me are the usual weight of an upright and being unable to play silently. You see, I live on the 6th floor of a 7-storey block of flats. It's quite a stretch to imagine getting a ~200kg (~440lb) heavy upright up 12 sets of stairs. I also anticipate that the neighbors wouldn't be very appreciative of my playing late in the afternoon/evening and I don't want to play on a dampened piano all the time.

So it's all practical reasons for me. Things like low maintenance, extra sounds and features etc. are a nice plus but not a complete necessity. I have already had a fair share of witty wisecracks from my colleagues at work, some of which happen to be (semi-)decent piano players, but now they seem to have accepted these reasons. I still see the purchase as a long-term investment, hence the higher-end model even though, as a complete beginner, I could have been looking at some of the lower-end DP's.

Interesting thought.

The first day I owned the RD-700NX, I plugged it into my home stereo (decent Boston Acoustic speakers) and it sounded pretty lame; I've always thought that was my stereo, though. Also, when playing back recorded performances of the RD on the stereo, it does not seem to sound as good as Ivory or the Vintage D.

I only use headphones when playing the Roland, and with headphones, it sounds very good.

This thread is kind of a bit silly for me.

I think that everybody knows that DP is only some kind substitute of real piano for people.
I am playing piano for about 20 years, I have in home some mid-quality upright (which at the date of production in 1938 was for sure hi-end piano, but was not treated properly by previous owners). Sound is big and rich, as also it has beautiful furniture.
I played in my life on pianos from totally crapped and low-quality uprights, dozens of old and newer grands in music schools up to brand new S&S D model, C model, Kawai RX (little bigger than baby grand) so in fact all kinds of pianos I had below my hands.

Now I am moving from my parents house to flat in old builiding and I can't take AP with me. I have to buy DP to let my neighbours live with me in peace

But the main thinking error is that we just cannot compare DP to acoustic instrument...
They are mode for different people, different needs, different skills. Of course, there is some kind of the common area in the AP and DP usage, but...

Who buys DP:
1. Piano lovers who cannot buy AP due to the living conditions (neighbours etc)
2. People who just want to play piano for fun, most probably they will never achieve high-level technique and musical understanding... because they just don't want to people want to have fun with piano, not to spend 6 months on learning Chopin's Ballades or Debussy Etudes
3.Parents for children but they don't know will they love or hate it...


Going futher... people prefer DP's becase they are smaller and look better in small flats and don't take so much place as AP
(It's obvious that in a big living room the only one good looking is mid-sized grand


Waht's more, on the DP you can have a lot of fun because its fireworks, different sounds, midi, playing with orchestra etc.
So - in the eyes of 90% people (what we can clearly see on this forum) the DP is the right choice

Only for the left 10% of pianists DP is bad, just because they don't have another choice due to some external conditions, but each of them most probably would buy an AP if only could. And this is the little unhappy group claiming about the DP quality

So saying, that DP is a crap, generally makes no sense. If you compare it to the any grand, or the most of new uprights (meybe excluding these cheapest) we can say the it;s worse or crap. But go to any piano store, get 2-3k USD upright compare to any concert grand and you will also say that it's a crap...

It's the same story as with cars. You can buy Dacia Logan or even Tata Nano,
and say that it's a crap... in many aspects maybe yes, but you cannot compare this to Rolls-Royce or Bentley or Lamborghini... it's just made for other people for other needs Eventually, both in Tata and RR you can drive from one place to another

It sounds really good to me too (for a DP) through headphones. But through the speakers I built for it it sounds not so good. It seems there are one or more elements of the SN sound that rely too heavily on headphones, like a CD mixed via headphones will likely sound bad when played over speakers. Perhaps headphones were too heavily employed during its development?

are you implying we're different?

Putting aside any technical analysis, the DPs I encounter in my various travels routinely and profoundly disappoint me. Crap tone, crap speakers, crap keys, crap UIs, etc. I saw / heard the AG for the first time a year ago in the flesh and it struck me as pretty weak tea when compared to the real thing - the reps on hand were talking it up like it was superior to an AP, which made the experience even more surreal. I guess I'm less disappointed by the low end, where expectations are low-to-nonexistent to begin with, but it's more of a "hey, look what they can do with a pile of plastic and $20 worth of electronics" kind of thing. All DPs are seriously overpriced for what they are. And there is no technical or financial reason they can't be significantly better by this point. And their abilities are generally overhyped - their ad copy writes checks their products can't cash.

The 700NX sounded excellent through my RCF TT08As...and that was before I bought the JM-110 pre/di. It would probably sound even better now. But yes generally speaking, I think it fares best on a solo recording or over phones.

I think those are PAs? What would you use if you were setting a board up in your house? I'm not convinced that studio monitors are the way to go. But many on this forum use them.

I actually use the RCFs. The TT line of RCF are pretty high definition...not your usual QSC,EV, JBL, Mackie MI fare. I have a pair of Dynaudio BM6As that I monitor my acoustic recordings of my Steinway. I've tried the Dyns on both the CP5 & Nord Piano. For just playing my DP through at home, I prefer these RCFs to my Dynaudio monitors.

For goodness sake - he's an Internet troll. I can see right through this Muppet. Just ignore him and he'll go away.

You're right, Ashway.
KataiYubi is a troll. He posted exactly ONCE in this thread.
Since then, all the fuss has come from other members.

So it's not him we should ignore. We ought to ignore this thread, eh?

Troll or not, it obviously hit a nerve.

I am confused. Are you supporting my point of view or his?

For sure it's more entertaining. And the troll has a point - if we forget gigging, silent practicing, access to different piano tones, recording, price and all the junky acoustic pianos around.