Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
85 registered members (ando, 36251, anotherscott, amad23, BachToTheFuture, Bambers, 18 invisible), 1,893 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
#2025629 - 02/01/13 11:20 PM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: Kuanpiano]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
USA
Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
Great = Fantasie Impromptu, parts of the 4th ballade.
Weird - Revolutionary etude. Where's the dynamic contrast? Heroic Polonaise - why is everything so perky and staccato?


There's nothing abnormal about his etude's dynamics. It's all there.

As for the polonaise, that I understand. I guess it's a matter of taste. I love his polonaise. I can't even listen to others' renditions anymore. They're all so overly done with rubato. It spoils the piece.


(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2025863 - 02/02/13 01:00 PM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: JoelW]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,194
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Kuanpiano  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,194
Canada
He doesn't respect the "piano" markings, but instead just plays forte all the way through. Like it works in a live performance, but if you listen to it a few times it gets a bit monotonous.

Just FYI, my favourite interpretation of the 4th scherzo is by Richter, who makes it sparkle like nobody else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF0orKWbP-c


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

#2025867 - 02/02/13 01:05 PM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: Kuanpiano]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
USA
Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
He doesn't respect the "piano" markings, but instead just plays forte all the way through. Like it works in a live performance, but if you listen to it a few times it gets a bit monotonous.

Just FYI, my favourite interpretation of the 4th scherzo is by Richter, who makes it sparkle like nobody else.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF0orKWbP-c


sick Sorry...

#2025913 - 02/02/13 02:32 PM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: Kuanpiano]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,628
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,628
Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
Great = Fantasie Impromptu, parts of the 4th ballade.
Weird - Revolutionary etude. Where's the dynamic contrast? Heroic Polonaise - why is everything so perky and staccato?


Agreed, on all counts! I would add that the polonaise is nearly unbearable.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2025918 - 02/02/13 02:46 PM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: Kuanpiano]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,373
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by Kuanpiano

Just FYI, my favourite interpretation of the 4th scherzo is by Richter, who makes it sparkle like nobody else...

Ashkenazy's earlier Decca recording is quite nifty also.

And try Godowsky. He is very special:


Jason
#2025920 - 02/02/13 02:49 PM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: argerichfan]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,584
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,584
New York
Thanks!
I didn't know we even had any recordings of his, even though I'm a big fan of those old-old recordings.

#2026011 - 02/02/13 08:07 PM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: Damon]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
USA
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
Great = Fantasie Impromptu, parts of the 4th ballade.
Weird - Revolutionary etude. Where's the dynamic contrast? Heroic Polonaise - why is everything so perky and staccato?


Agreed, on all counts! I would add that the polonaise is nearly unbearable.


You know, he won 'best polonaise' award.

#2026096 - 02/03/13 12:24 AM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: JoelW]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,584
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,584
New York
Originally Posted by JoelW
You know, he won 'best polonaise' award.

Well, I don't think it would have won "best polonaise" at the amateur Chopin competition there. ha

#2026099 - 02/03/13 12:30 AM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: Mark_C]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
USA
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by JoelW
You know, he won 'best polonaise' award.

Well, I don't think it would have won "best polonaise" at the amateur Chopin competition there. ha


I don't get it.

#2026106 - 02/03/13 12:50 AM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: JoelW]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,584
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,584
New York
Originally Posted by JoelW
I don't get it.

Good for you -- because it's just stupid. grin


And what's stupider is that I really think it's not as good as some of the polonaise performances at the amateur Chopin competitions. ha

And this isn't a first.
While I realize that most people would indeed think this is just stupid, and that it's ridiculous to think otherwise, and heck, they could be right ha
.....a couple of years ago, our guy fuzzy8balls posted a recording of himself playing the Op. 22, and another member who thought it needed a lot of improvement posted a couple of recordings of it from the Chopin competition, for him to use as models. I thought fuzzy's was already better, in the sense of being more interesting, more in the feeling of a polonaise, and more distinctive, which for me trumped things like little flaws here and there.

#2026108 - 02/03/13 12:59 AM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: Mark_C]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
USA
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by JoelW
I don't get it.

Good for you -- because it's just stupid. grin


And what's stupider is that I really think it's not as good as some of the polonaise performances at the amateur Chopin competitions. ha

And this isn't a first.
While I realize that most people would indeed think this is just stupid, and that it's ridiculous to think otherwise, and heck, they could be right ha
.....a couple of years ago, our guy fuzzy8balls posted a recording of himself playing the Op. 22, and another member who thought it needed a lot of improvement posted a couple of recordings of it from the Chopin competition, for him to use as models. I thought fuzzy's was already better, in the sense of being more interesting, more in the feeling of a polonaise, and more distinctive, which for me trumped things like little flaws here and there.


Bunin's polonaise... whistle

#2026109 - 02/03/13 01:00 AM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: Mark_C]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
USA
Originally Posted by Mark_C


And what's stupider is that I really think it's not as good as some of the polonaise performances at the amateur Chopin competitions. ha



I agree, this is stupid. grin

#2026143 - 02/03/13 02:54 AM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: JoelW]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,584
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 21,584
New York
Originally Posted by JoelW
I agree, this is stupid. grin

Seems pretty safe. ha

#2026155 - 02/03/13 03:42 AM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: Kreisler]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 244
wower Offline
Full Member
wower  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 244
Calgary
Originally Posted by Kreisler
Judges reward musicianship. They don't punish a lack of pedantry.


QFT


Bad spellers of the world untie!
#2026206 - 02/03/13 07:44 AM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: JoelW]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,628
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,628
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
Great = Fantasie Impromptu, parts of the 4th ballade.
Weird - Revolutionary etude. Where's the dynamic contrast? Heroic Polonaise - why is everything so perky and staccato?


Agreed, on all counts! I would add that the polonaise is nearly unbearable.


You know, he won 'best polonaise' award.


Good for him. I won't ever listen to it again. I've never heard a performance of it that I liked less.

#2026208 - 02/03/13 07:50 AM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: Damon]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,935
USA
Originally Posted by Damon

Good for him. I won't ever listen to it again. I've never heard a performance of it that I liked less.


Hehehe...

#2027054 - 02/04/13 07:15 PM Re: ACTUAL cheating? (scherzo 4, Chopin competition) [Re: JoelW]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 821
Julian_ Offline
500 Post Club Member
Julian_  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 821
London, UK
Joel, thanks for sharing that performance. I don't feel as strongly as Mark_C, perhaps because I see that moment as being one of several weird moments! Bunin's playing comes across as full of warmth and heart, with plenty of sensitivity along with some choices that strike me as weird. I like that he *really* has the technique to do what he wants with the piece, and I think there are relatively few pianists who could claim that. He also mostly produces a large tone without banging unpleasantly.

Onto the weird bits... in several places Bunin opts for a detached sound where Chopin (and the music itself I feel) call for more fluidity. For example, right at measure 9 there is Ped. marked with the low staccato B, but Bunin plays without pedal there, and at every similar place throughout the piece. He fairly bounces off measure 151 (the D sharps in the treble that are written as lasting for six beats with ten. for good measure!!!) - pretty radical changes. I'm sure he had his reasons, but... hmmm. I also don't think he integrates some of the later details well, for example, the octaves from measure 614 sound more like a new idea interrupting another rather than organic impetuosity. And measures 752? He almost seems to get quieter at the end, rather than the ingenious 'crescendo within a chord' effect. I do like the performance as a whole though, honestly.

P.S. Is it just me, or does anyone else see measure 28 and similar as having written-out grace notes, 'enforced' in this case as occurring on the beat? I would play the initial quarter note slightly quicker than its strict metronomic value, to give the grace note feel.


(Used to post as SlatterFan)
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Messiaen - Vingt Regards
by Eric NYC. 10/22/17 10:59 AM
Pen Pal Thread
by cmb13. 10/22/17 07:26 AM
The difference between PTG and technician association?
by Fazioli-Yang. 10/22/17 12:27 AM
Sostenuto pedal
by Elysia.S. 10/21/17 10:52 PM
Impending issue with ABF Recital software
by Whizbang. 10/21/17 10:12 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,419
Posts2,666,394
Members89,015
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0