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#2025787 - 02/02/13 10:05 AM Why do you hate a williams?  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
TheKeysAssassin Offline
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TheKeysAssassin  Offline
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Kansas City, MO
Ive heard person after person bashing and smashing William's dp's. I have played with a few, and even own the allegro, and they seem perfectly alright with me. Most have better key leverage that most lower and mid ranged dps', the sound all right (with headphones or monitors) and feel solid in the action and in the construction. So what do you not like about them?


-Nathon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b
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#2025797 - 02/02/13 10:34 AM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Nov 2012
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Marko in Boston Offline
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Marko in Boston  Offline
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Boston, Massachusetts
I see them at my local GC for $299. I played one for a minute or two. I would not bash it, but I certainly would not want to buy it. You can get much better quality keyboard action, technology, polyphony, etc for a few hundred more.

This guy seems to favor Casio in most reviews, but read it for what it's worth:
http://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2011/04/williams-allegro-casio-cdp100-digital.html

.


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2025802 - 02/02/13 10:40 AM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
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Dr Popper Offline
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Dr Popper  Offline
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Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted by TecFlip
So what do you not like about them?


Ummm the sound the action and the everything else .... They are rubbish


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
#2025818 - 02/02/13 11:22 AM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
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ando Offline
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ando  Offline
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Melbourne, Australia
The hate came from a member named "Gyro". He used to come on here and say his Williams was suitable for the most demanding piano concerto, and he'd say it practically every time he ventured on this forum. People lost patience with him. If it weren't for him, I'd say Williams would barely rate a mention around here as this forum generally focusses on mid- to high-end DPs. I think it's just a case of you get what you pay for. If you are happy with what you got for your money, you have every right to defend your purchase.

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#2025826 - 02/02/13 11:31 AM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
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TheKeysAssassin Offline
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TheKeysAssassin  Offline
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Kansas City, MO
Well, i know im not going to be saying hate anymore:) It just makes me curious why people feel so appaled by them.


-Nathon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b
#2025827 - 02/02/13 11:36 AM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Mar 2012
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Sand Tiger Offline
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Sand Tiger  Offline
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Southern California
It tends to be an emotional response. A person can go to any hobby, and the enthusiasts will tend to have a visceral dislike for low-priced chain-store brands. Some go as far as sneering at those that buy the low end items. I have no problem with the choice as long as people go in with their eyes open. There are reasons why the units are cheaper and there are valid and objective criticisms.

Sure there are better units at 2x or 3x the price, but for some people you may as well tell them to travel to the moon to get their unit. Folks with money (and most regulars on this forum have some money) often have little idea how difficult it is to come up with $500 or $1000 (vs. coming up with $200 or $300).

Yes, it would be nice if all could afford the $500 or $1000 units, or $3000 units for that matter, but not everyone can. At $300, there isn't much to choose from, and at the recent sale price of $200, there isn't much downside. If it doesn't work out, they can likely sell the instrument for about what they put in.

#2025858 - 02/02/13 12:50 PM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Oct 2010
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SkiPablo Offline
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SkiPablo  Offline
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if you are looking for cheap you are much better off with Casio that Williams - they sound like something from 20 years ago to me


Yamaha P-250 | Galaxy II Pianos | Galaxy Vintage D | The GIANT | Ravenscroft 275
#2025877 - 02/02/13 01:18 PM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
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PianoWorksATL Offline
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PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Atlanta, GA
I guess when I consider the product has both poor action and poor sound, for that budget, I'd rather get at least one thing right. There are touch sensitive keyboards with reasonably good sounds for that price and much better overall quality. So its more than just money, it's my philosophy of value. I'd rather have a good toy than a bad tool. When quality gets too low, price becomes irrelevant. Many people cannot get past price.

I recently had to advise this to a charitable organization that their money was better spent on some affordable keyboards over inadequate alternatives. I also gave advice to another school on how they needed to spend enough in some areas to save much more overall, but they went for the cheaper alternative because they couldn't see beyond the short-term cost.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
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#2025879 - 02/02/13 01:20 PM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: SkiPablo]  
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36251 Offline
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36251  Offline
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Maybe people here who know what quality feels like and sounds like, dislike them cause we witness so people (families) buying them without taking the time to get opinions and understand their options.


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
#2025923 - 02/02/13 02:56 PM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Sep 2011
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toddy Offline
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toddy  Offline
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Portugal
If these pianos are at least reliable, then they are perhaps good value. They would deliver a piano like sound. according to key velocity and give the impression of weight and resistance such as found on a cheaper upright, say.

But I totally agree with Sand Tiger that we can, in giving out sound knowledgeable advice, forget just how tight another person's budget might be.

We should be grateful that Casio make products of real quality for such low prices, but even they are considerably more than these rock bottom items like Williams or Gear4You/Thomman's 'own' brands.

When I was looking for a DP, I started from the bottom up, convinced that the low end Casio or Yamaha would do everything I wanted. But when I looked into it, I came out with a Roland because it felt and sounded miles better than the others in the same range. So I spent the comparative fortune of €1350 on the piano.

But I spend many hours with it, very aware of the weighting and sensitivity of the keys, and of the quality of sounds. I think that's similar to the experience of many here. However, when it comes to almost any other item - razors, food stuffs, bike, clothes etc, I get the cheapest possible, or second hand.

So the fact some people are perfectly happy with the Williams - so long as it is reliable and durable enough, should be no surprise. They have in fact, got themselves a good deal.



Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2025976 - 02/02/13 06:03 PM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Mar 2007
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voxpops Offline
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voxpops  Offline
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Wales
Sometimes it's wiser to buy used, if it means better quality.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2025982 - 02/02/13 06:32 PM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,885
toddy Offline
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toddy  Offline
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Posts: 2,885
Portugal
Yes - second hand should be the first option, I think, except where technological development is galloping. But it isn't galloping with DPs - it's trotting at most. Even so, for me to get SN piano sound and PHAII keyboard meant buying new.

And second hand goods are habitually overpriced here in Portugal - I think people prefer to give their cast-offs through the family network, or hang on to stuff - it's strange.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2026005 - 02/02/13 07:44 PM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: voxpops]  
Joined: Sep 2009
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PianoWorksATL Offline
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PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by voxpops
Sometimes it's wiser to buy used, if it means better quality.
I would take most 5-year old P85 or PX-110/120 DP's over a new Williams.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
#2026033 - 02/02/13 09:36 PM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Oct 2008
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Jeff Clef Offline
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Jeff Clef  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,764
San Jose, CA
Ah, the immortal Gyro. He was tolerated by the mods for years, who felt he had a right to be as loopy as he wanted to be, and by the members on this forum (mildly ridiculed as a harmless crank)... until [1] a newbie with a very limited budget actually took his stupid advice, and bought a Williams. He hated it, of course, and was now stuck with it, hurt or not, and the forum members got pretty mad at Gyro. He had long had a tendency to target new members who didn't know any better--- I thought it was predatory.

Besides that, [2] he started giving out medical advice to people having RSI problems, or other pain issues. And at that point, the mods had a Come to Jesus moment, and Gyro's posting privileges were revoked.

Williams was never well favored for its quality, but Gyro's endorsement put a stink on it which has not yet worn off. The name is a sock, of course, for an Asian maker; I looked it up once, but have now forgotten the name. And the poor newbie had bought it from a company across an international border to save money, and couldn't even return it. I felt so sorry for him (I've been him), and only hope that it turned out to be a cheap lesson on the value of free advice from a faceless stranger on the internet. Present company excepted, of course.


Clef

#2026151 - 02/03/13 03:28 AM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
TheKeysAssassin Offline
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TheKeysAssassin  Offline
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Posts: 126
Kansas City, MO
I agree that Williams are rock bottom. But, and it seems there is always a but, I've had expensive and cheap dp's, and SOME mid range casio and yamahas sound and feel like junk. I had the cdp 120, hated it and got my yamaha ypg 235 back. In my opinion, a few of the williams seems to be miles ahead for their price range. I apologize for my rambling smile


-Nathon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b
#2026169 - 02/03/13 05:02 AM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Dec 2009
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Dr Popper Offline
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Dr Popper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Hancock Park LA (not again)
I miss Gyro he was hilarious ...but now we have KataiYubi who is easily just as much of a complete tool ....

Last edited by Dr Popper; 02/03/13 05:04 AM.

"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
#2026203 - 02/03/13 07:38 AM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
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Posts: 380
Aidan Offline
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Aidan  Offline
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UK
Ah, wondered what happened to our 'friend' Gyro. Missed his medical advice phase smile

I know it's tempting to be able to get something shiny and new when the budget is tight, but please listen to the advice here. For the same money, you're going to be able to find something far better on the second-hand market from a mainstream manufacturer.


Live: Casio PX-5S | Hammond SK1
Studio: Yamaha CP4 | Hammond SK2 | Kurzweil PC361 | Moog Sub 37
#2026454 - 02/03/13 07:14 PM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Dec 2010
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rnaple Offline

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rnaple  Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,199
Rocky Mountains
I've read the opinions here on Williams. I shyed away from them. You see what I got. It works, for now. I do want better. Don't need better just yet.
In November, I was in So. Cal. Tried out a Williams at a store. I was less than not impressed. I'd rather have what I got. I thank the honest people here for their opinions.

I don't hate Williams because I don't own Williams.

I'm another who goofed up because of Gyro. I got a little used casio toy. Thought I could get into beginnings of learning with it. It was so bad I couldn't. It was a few bucks wasted. No big deal. At least it was just a few. Money was that tight for me. I also admit what I got is the basis of money also. I didn't waste my money on this. Looking forward to an upgrade soon.


Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
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#2026519 - 02/03/13 09:28 PM Re: Why do you hate a williams? [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
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TheKeysAssassin Offline
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TheKeysAssassin  Offline
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Kansas City, MO
In all honesty, i took my allergo back because one of the keys went "klunk." So I got a P-35B instead. Loads difference.


-Nathon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b

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