Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Who are we fooling - digitals are junk at this juncture

+1. Number of sales does not equal to quality.

As for the anti-digital claims (or anti-acoustic claims) I don't really understand them. Digitals and acoustics as I see them, are different instruments. There are different players, that play different music styles, with different playing skills, with different tastes, with different places where to put the piano in, with different neighbours, with different wallets... then each one can choose digitals, acoustics, or even both. Having choices is good and there is a place for both, digitals and acoustics.

One likes acoustics? Get one. One like digitals? Get one. One like software pianos instead of built-in sounds on acoustics? Use them. Sampled? Modelled? Uprights? Grands? Hybrids? For me is all about choices.

Regards,
Kurt.-

I don't think anyone will disagree that no digital can replace a genuine, well maintained concert grand for it's touch, character and tonality.

I don't however appreciate your condescension and implication that whoever uses digital must only be a beginner, or casual users, or somehow can't hear the fact that it is "junk".

Although I've fallen out of practice, I have been playing since I was 3.5 and I was training in ARCT Performance diploma prior to stopping. I've played many concert grands and uprights... and I think good quality DPs are at the stage where it is a perfectly acceptable replacement for an acoustic when price, noise , environment or space is a factor. I wouldn't have said this even 5 years ago when I was looking at the models out at that time.

I think the point about digitals being the modern-day spinets is the right one. No digital I've seen is a true high-performance instrument. Professional classical pianists wouldn't practice on your living room upright or a digital because of the level at which they are operating and the demands of their repertoire.

Digitals replace inexpensive uprights in people's homes and do so well. In fact, they are perfect for it with their small size, light weight, and silent play capability--all very valuable in a typical home environment. Great for learning and for regular-level (intermediate and advanced) play. Of course there is variety among digitals as well...some are better than others. Every digital so far is limited relative to a concert grand in terms of action and sound, but so are typical acoustics and especially spinets.

Digitals are also perfect for the gigging musician, but that's kind of a separate topic because the OP doesn't seem to be in that group.

+1

Good point. I suspect there are quite a number of young (would-be or practising) classical concert pianists who only have digitals to practise on at home, but get regular access to acoustics to hone their interpretations for the concert platform.

But what I've definitely noticed is that people who've only ever played (and learnt) on digitals lack the quality of touch and tonal control when they play on acoustics, which may be due to the deficiencies of most DPs in this area. Hanging around piano showrooms and listening to the visiting punters bashing away is often an interesting experience. With acoustics, everyone can hear what everyone else is playing...

Perhaps where the DP really scores is when the pianist is already experienced, and knows how to control textures and bring out melodic strands within complex figuration, and able to use the tonal and dynamic range of the instrument. Such pianists have no difficulty doing the same on digitals, up to the limit of what the digitals allow them. Those still in the early-intermediate stage (when it's no longer just getting around the notes (when any DP with decent weighted keyboard would probably suffice) but also tone production, which requires control of weighting of individual notes within chords and textures, rather than just playing them) may benefit from using an acoustic most, if not all, the time, just so they can easily feel and hear the effects of the way they play, which is not so evident from most DPs.

There goes your credibility. Why don't you just go play your acoustic and leave the commentary alone. Maybe you would be happier if you did not spend any time in the DP forum.

A rather crude analogy based, I'm assuming, on your personal experience with both.......

His point is to stir things up, or perhaps to display the superiority of his piano and himself. Maybe he has some kind of complex, small man or something.

It sure would be great to hear him play.

ad hominem
When you can't win, attack the messenger.

"When you can't win, attack the messenger."

True maybe. But it is illuminating . . . and funny

I'm thinking the OP is a troll, considering his join date and post history.

Is there an "ignore" function on PW?

I think there is plenty of room in the world for both digital and acoustic pianos.

As a pianist there is nothing I like better than to get my hands on a quality concert grand piano, however rare that is nowadays. Unfortunately I will never have the space or means to own one. Even so I still prefer my Yamaha upright to any digital. It's not necessarily the sound of individual notes or the action, more that it gives me feedback that I have never managed to get from a digital. In many ways it's inferior to the most modern and best digitals but I still get more enjoyment from it.

I also own two digitals. One is an old technics that I have in my teaching room and use to accompany students in two piano works as I only have one acoustic. The other is a stage piano that I take on gigs. Actually it's mainly classical stuff that I play on gigs and I've been glad of my digital when faced with some of the horrendous acoustics in hotels and small venues. At least I know where I am with the digital, everything works and it's in tune!

I think the main problem with acoustic pianos these days is price. I teach around fifty students and not one of them can get anywhere near being able to afford a nice grand piano. Even a decent upright costs an arm and a leg. So I find myself recommending digitals more and more and so far haven't noticed that they have been detrimental to my students playing.

"I'm thinking the OP is a troll, considering his join date and post history.
Is there an "ignore" function on PW?"

I wouldn`t worry. It`s a reasonable posting and has generated a lot of interest. You can always ignore it yourself if you want to. It won`t last forever.

That is an interesting comment. What is your price breakdown for acoustics vs digitals?

I feel that digitals have to be upgraded more often as technology improves, as for acoustics there is price of tunings as time goes on. Acoustic pianos don't have to be replaced as often either.

Can you do a price breakdown for acoustics? What price would be a "nice grand" or "decent upright" be for you? What other costs are there that are associated with owning an acoustic piano?

In the end I have to wonder if owning an digital piano is really less expensive than owning an acoustic piano.

Most definitely. The ap manufacturers have practically priced themselves out of the market....at least with respect to players, teachers or aspiring players.

I couldn't believe the price, new, for that high end Yamaha upright..the model # escapes me right now. But I think it was over 12K, for an upright !

The only way a quality grand for most is even remotely obtainable is by buying used. It's so tragic because you have so many great players (both pro and serious hobbyists), along with dedicated teachers that are SO deserving that might never have the means ( much less the space to put it in) to acquire something nice. I can't begin tell you how many gigs/private parties I've played over the years in people's homes on a high end instrument that is nothing more then a piece of furniture to them.

Given the prices I totally get why people are turning to digitals. Heck I paid only $13,250 + Ca. tax for my Yamaha C7E in 1985 from Fields Piano in Orange County. What do they go for, new, today for God's sakes ?! I'm not into cars at all, but I'm fairly certain you could buy a mid-priced Lexus for what a new C7 sells for.

Doctor, I get this very unpleasant ringing in my ear when I play repeated notes in the treble range of my piano.

Doctor: Then don't do that!

How advanced are your students (in terms of ABRSM grade), and are they playing classical music?

I've often wondered when I hear intermediate-standard young pianists playing who seem not to be able to voice chords properly, bring out melodies within textures etc. Everything sounds one-dimensional, their chording is opaque, they can't seem to play softly or balance melody against accompaniment, yet they evidently have finger dexterity from being well-practised, and maybe even well-taught, but possibly not having an adequate instrument to practise on. Their parents tell me they use a digital at home, so it can't be uneven action (inadequate, possibly yes) at fault. Unresponsiveness to touch, maybe?

Oh, I'm not worried about it at all, peter. But I do find the OP's attitude to be rather condescending. Granted, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when it's stated in such a way that is offensive or damaging it needs to be addressed. Perhaps I was hasty suggesting that the OP is a troll. Maybe he's just immature.

This discussion is an absurd waste of time. An absurd, wasteful rant that adds positively nothing to any conversation. The idea is not to replace but to present a suitable alternative. The premises are all flawed. Starting from the argument that folks would choose a DP over an AP given no space, time, logistic or monetary constraints is just fish bait. Go back to your pianos and play folks. Leave the negative ninny rants to pros like the OP. He just opened the door, yelled fire, and ran for the hills. I feel like a fish.