Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner How do *you* cheat? (Chopin Etudes)

Since we've been talking about cheating, I want to come clean! I cheat!

For example, here's what I do for Chopin 10/1



Top is as written, bottom is what I do.

I don't play the "C" 8ve in the bass then try to repeat that C again in my right hand. I simply play the lowest C, then repeat the other C again with my left hand, a 16th note later. The pedal is down and nobody suspects a thing.

There are a few other cheats I do in this one, a couple even omit notes. I will notate them and post here when I get another break today.

(Maybe I can go on Oprah and, tearfully, admit to cheating!)

OMG!

Ban him NOW!

NOW I TELL YOU!

It's interesting seeing what other pianists do. I like this "suspicious cut" on this Garrick Ohlsson video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdCObCqE7ek

They switch cameras so you can't see exactly what he does, but his left thumb is on that "C" so he either didn't play it twice, or re-held it.

I can't tell what Valentina Lisitsa is doing either

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROVy9PC8_8A

I'll stick with my solution.

I'm not sure why you use cheat at the beginning as I don't find that part a challenge. Keeping your right hand relaxed at speed however is the challenge! Omitting notes? Inexcusable!!!

Well, what are you going to do? As written, the same note is to be played with your right hand, and your left-hand is already on it. You're not leaving out any notes....

Leaving out that one note goes way beyond "cheating" and is totally inexcusable. Shocking really. For ethical reasons you should change the title of thread immediately.

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek. I probably do the same thing but am not aware of it.

I certainly can't play it up to speed so any pedantry on my part is entirely without merit.

PL they're not leaving it out but simply redistributing between the hands. I don't see the point though.. it potentially disturbs the musical line and doesn't really make it much easier..

LOL!

I assume this is mostly a "LOL," including because as Vid said, that's hardly one of the hard things about the piece.

Oh -- in case you were half serious about "Well, what are you going to do? As written, the same note is to be played with your right hand, and your left-hand is already on it" or for anyone who wonders: You can immediately release the note with the LH to allow it to be played by the RH, and then the pedal sustains it. (Since I doubt there would be any Bach-thread-like opinion that you don't use pedal.)

BTW I worked out a cheat where you never have to stretch more than a 7th with the RH in the whole piece. Playing it that way really would be grounds for execution.

How do you manage that? Can you post the fingering (if you dare)?

OK, you dragged it out of me.

All I need to do is say the first few notes, and you could figure out the rest. First of all I do what Thrill said and then on the next 4 notes (G-C-E-C) the RH does 1-2-4-2, then shifts up to play the next 4 notes the same way, and so on. Sometimes it's 1-3-5-3 or 1-2-5-2 or whatever, depending on how the notes lay out. And where you can't take the first RH note of a figure with the LH, you use 2 and then jump the thumb to the next note. (And BTW maybe sometimes you actually have to 'stretch' as much as an octave, don't remember for sure, glad to say I haven't done this stupid trick in years.)

It's a genuine felony.

I actually do that same move in quite a few places. Let me mark up a manuscript later today and show you what I mean.

"How do *you* cheat? (Chopin Etudes)"

*I* don't cheat in Etudes.

Why would *you* want to cheat in an Etude?
Doesn't it make studying the Etude meaningless?

The only reasoning I can think of why you would want to do such things is that:
- You don't actually want to study the etude and gain the skill intended by the composer,
- However you want to hear how it sounds live on your own piano, from the players position.

If you are okay hearing it live on your own piano from a listeners position, find someone who can play the Etude as written and intended by Chopin, and let him/her play it for you.

I'm in this camp. The reason to work on an Etude is to improve some aspect of your technique. Finding a way to eliminate the primary challenge in an Etude is like attaching a motor to a bicycle and then going out for a fitness ride; it's not going to do you any good.

Sometimes the goal is to make music!

It is intended you put the thumb on the second semiquaver and the fifth on the beat when going up and the fifth on the beat and the fourth on the fourth semiquaver group when you go down.

I've seen people do in bar 11...
2-1-2/3-5-2-1-2/3-5 etc, because their hand is too small and they can't play what's written.

I cheat by letting someone else play them for me..

I learned a couple of them years and years ago, but haven't touched them since. Incidentally, I remember using Mark's cheat to reduce the span because my hands at the time were too small to play it as written.

I'll even double down: Most often the goal is to make music!


Chopin's etudes reduced to mere "fitness exercises"????

Czerny, Hanon, Duvernoy ... and ... and ... Chopin??

Yikes!

Aren't you aware that by dropping that note, you are already ruining one of the most musically profound element of this etude? The majestic opening octave.

Redistributing the notes between hands/fingers to achieve your goal of making music? Maybe (still it will be your music but not Chopin's, because the sound will change dramatically).

But dropping notes and making music? No way!

Then you should be playing the Liszt etudes.