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Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: SamXu] #2023157 01/29/13 01:21 AM
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It is such a gift to LEARN how to work through things that are difficult. When my daughter is frustrated with piano, she talks to her older brother and he re-phrases what she is trying to do and once the frustration level edges lower, she is more open to learning.

I think there are cycles too - when things are easy and come easily, when you have a minor roadblock, it can feel major (so they want to quit).

Just an idea, but maybe if you played some things together it might make piano more fun again.

And pretty much every kid has bratty moments. For girls though 9 is a "stage" that is hard.

Keep encouraging her to tackle things that are hard. By middle school many girls give up on things that are difficult - math, science, sports. with support at home, they are more apt to stick with it.

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Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: SamXu] #2023197 01/29/13 03:10 AM
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Sorry to croak again chaps ...
but in view of Debussyist not making much piano progress, muddling through keyboard studies of truly dusty value, and feeling the draught of unbending Asian parents ...

My advice is
1. Cut the bogus chatter about the younger sister
2. Send the parents away to visit distant relations
3. Go outside and smell the roses
4. Read a good book about Debussy (my favourite)
5. Once refreshed take a new look at a masterpiece
Chopin Nocturne in F# major op15 no2
(changed due to my technical inadequacy)

We are all here to provide assistance ... just mention
any one of your keyboard studies, and just where the
hangup lies ... and quick as a flash the cavalry will save the day.

PS Even Beethoven’s first sonata Opus 2/1 can be approached
with a constructive eye ... being of solid proportions .

What busts my gut are those buzzing insectivorous stings as at measure 1... a clue as to the influence of his mentor Papa Haydn ... but it’s not long before Beethoven starts building a repetitious small chord layout in the LH supporting a broad octave chord Theme in the RH ... as earlier said, the 2/1 series of sonatas were dedicated to Haydn.







Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: SamXu] #2023324 01/29/13 09:37 AM
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Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by Debbusyist
Originally Posted by childofparadise2002
"I wish I worked harder" ... We all have perfect hindsight! Many people in this world wish they have the will power to work harder and be really good at something, but in reality very few are really willing to put in the effort when the opportunity presents. So I wouldn't take this too seriously...


Thanks for the reply. I think that she was just PMSing and being a drama queen that day when I made the thread. Right now, she's fine and dandy with practicing.


PMSing?? At the age of 9??


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: SamXu] #2023331 01/29/13 09:49 AM
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Morodiene, the same question crossed my mind...

Also, where's the teacher in all of this? He/she has spent four years of single lessons with the girl... don't they talk? The girl might want to play completely different music, have fun lessons...
Why does she have to pass exams?
Would a change of teacher help?


The piano keys are black and white,
But they sound like a million colours in your mind.
(Katie Melua)
Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: SamXu] #2023354 01/29/13 10:44 AM
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Chris H. Offline
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The need to pass exams usually comes from the parents.

However there is nothing to say that studying music for graded exams can't be fun and in my experience offering the choice of alternative music rarely makes any difference. Most music which sounds good and is enjoyable to play is also difficult to learn in the first place. If you dumb things down it doesn't become more stimulating.


Pianist and piano teacher.
Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: Morodiene] #2023572 01/29/13 06:38 PM
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SamXu Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Morodiene


PMSing?? At the age of 9??


lol not literally.


HSC pieces:
Shostakovich Piano Concerto op 102. movement 1
Chopin Op10 No1
Debussy Broulliards Preludes Bk1
Kats-Chernin Russian Rag
Messiaen Regard d'letoile
Mozart Sonata for 2 pianos D major
Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: pianomouse] #2023576 01/29/13 06:43 PM
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SamXu Offline OP
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Originally Posted by pianomouse
Morodiene, the same question crossed my mind...

Also, where's the teacher in all of this? He/she has spent four years of single lessons with the girl... don't they talk? The girl might want to play completely different music, have fun lessons...
Why does she have to pass exams?
Would a change of teacher help?


Right now, the teacher is going to give her supplementary lessons, adue to the teacher's observation that while my sister knows how to play the pieces, she doesn't take the time to perfect it. These supplementary lessons are to help her to makes those perfections eg. Dynamics, phrasing, touching, etc.


HSC pieces:
Shostakovich Piano Concerto op 102. movement 1
Chopin Op10 No1
Debussy Broulliards Preludes Bk1
Kats-Chernin Russian Rag
Messiaen Regard d'letoile
Mozart Sonata for 2 pianos D major
Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: SamXu] #2023581 01/29/13 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Debbusyist
Right now, the teacher is going to give her supplementary lessons

I've offered that to several of my students in the past. No takers. Some parents think one 30-minute lesson per week is sufficient for Level 5. Ha!


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: keystring] #2023665 01/29/13 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by TimR


Did you give your kids total freedom when it came to math?

We homeschooled. laugh
They both knew that people use math. in life, and they wanted to learn math.

Since you asked. smile


Children have a natural drive to explore some interests and will devote a huge amount of time to them. (I think this is true of most of them, anyway) This is by far the best motivation. All you have to do is get out of the way, and support their efforts.

I believe, and you are free to disagree with me, that there also exist some necessary skills that the same children will not be interested in, and that it is our job as parents to make some of those decisions for them. I required my children to take four years of math in high school. Neither of them would have done that on their own. Had they not done that, they would have disqualified themselves from 90% of today's careers. They might never have wanted those careers - and in fact neither child went on to a technical education - but they had a choice they otherwise would not have had. Similarly I required an exposure to music lessons in middle school. They dropped them later, but retained enough of the language to have some options to explore later in that realm as well.

I would also point out that peer pressure is hugely effective, and I've been impressed in the local high school that some of the talented music students were as popular as the athletes of my day. We are making some progress.

Quote
There are no "superior choices".


No........but maybe too much specialization at an early age is not prudent? I like the well rounded student model, maybe I'm old fashioned.


gotta go practice
Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: TimR] #2023675 01/29/13 10:10 PM
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Tim, you're my kind of parent! Thanks from which ever teacher your children had.


"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: TimR] #2023711 01/29/13 11:31 PM
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TimR, the things you describe is not the kind of parenting I was talking about, and the behaviours you describe are not the ones that are the result. Just because you see good results in what you do, does not mean that those of us who did differently will get bad results - or the ones you describe. You talk about specialization --- when did I ever recommend early specialization? If we as a group are open minded about different possibilities, maybe there could be some benefit to that. I'm sorry that I mentioned anything.

Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: SamXu] #2024145 01/30/13 05:17 PM
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Here to receive the final diploma from the Royal Conservatory of Music Toronto for orchestral instruments you have to complete Level 6 Piano for the Performer's certificate and Level 8 for the Teaching one. And in a few years, teaching an instrument and/or accompanying can make far better money for a teen than say, flipping burgers. :-) And it's good to keep the options open, plus here most universities will exempt you from piano skills classes if you have say, Level 4-6 RCM. But definitely encourage study of a different instrument and popular repertoire.

Meri


Clarinet and Piano Teacher based out of Toronto, Canada.Web: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com
Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: SamXu] #2024213 01/30/13 07:28 PM
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If I were the parent that was "driving" this whole thing. I would change my approach to this.

I would explain, as best you can to a 9 year old, that my wishing for her to become somewhat skilled at playing piano is based on things she knows nothing about yet but when she does know, it may be too late to achieve it.

So, I would bargain with her.

I would arrange to have an instructor who will cooperate with me and create some sort of incentive track for my daughter whereas she gets to take a long vacation (2 months) off from piano after she is able to reach a defined level of skill ... who knows how that will be judged ... but it must be reachable in 2 - 4 months.

If you have the right relationship with your daughter, I think this could work. You cannot jam it down her throat. This is just one option. But I would be reluctant to just let her quit. You only have about 6 or 7 years left to get her to a place where she might just start enjoying it and then she will take off on her own.

Or ...NOT


Don

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Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: keystring] #2024218 01/30/13 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by TimR
I told my kids they had to do two years of music, any kind of music, that it was a mandatory skill just like math or reading.

The older one made it through one year of piano lessons then bargained to drop piano and join the track team. The younger one made it through one year of band, then made a deal to drop band for chorus, and then the school cancelled chorus after her schedule was fixed.

The kids were smarter than Daddy, which isn't hard.

Although, I still think I was right. <g>

Years later the older one started subbing in a handbell choir - doesn't have to her notes, still reads music and counts better than the experienced ringers. The younger one now has performed in musicals, writes her own songs, and plays ukulele. Enough of that one year stuck to make a difference.

You cannot know whether such choices created the outcome, or if outcomes happen despite choices.

One of my kids started an instrument, then asked to wait until later, so we did. He started again two years later, got top marks in music at a special high school, and then entered music in university. So you forced your kids for two years. I gave my kids total freedom. Does it prove anything?


Absolutely agree. Those are anecdotal examples. They prove nothing. I do believe, however, that the more you interact with your children and give them the sense that what they "think" matters, the more likely your children will grow up to make good decisions. That is as I said, what I believe. Even that may not be true ... just a sense.

The main thing is that they grow up with good values and learn to make good decisions. Giving them a say in things, I think, helps foster that.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: SamXu] #2024358 01/31/13 12:54 AM
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Jonathan Baker Offline
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Originally Posted by Debbusyist

So do you think she should continue? She's been pianoing for 4 years, always angry at the piano and always happy when she gets an A in her exams. I don't know what to do or how to help.


Before quitting I would suggest your parents find another piano teacher and definitely drop the AMEB curriculum in favor of some other repertoire selections. If the teacher is fixated on the AMEB series it is for the teacher's lazy decision making, not your sister's musical engagement with enthusiasm. In other words, give it another shot from a completely different perspective.

Your sister should have far more options in the selection of the music she learns. As it is, she is on someone else's assembly line, and who would want that?

And if music is such a high priority with your parents, why must it only be the piano? Perhaps your sister would have more fun belonging to a quality youth choir.

Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: SamXu] #2024604 01/31/13 12:44 PM
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Great post, Jonathan. Why aren't you writing here more often?

Re: Being forced to play piano. [Re: Peter K. Mose] #2024634 01/31/13 01:45 PM
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Thank you, Peter. I will try to drop in more often.

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