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Hi Nigeth,



Well, outputting sound from your PC or Mac will always require wires of some kind.
However, I can tell you that connecting the VPC to your computer shouldn't require to many additional cables.

Cheers,
James
x

And decent built-in speakers could keep one from adding yet more wires to the pile on the floor, not to mention figuring out where to put the speakers. The wiring is a huge point of failure as well (why is the left speaker suddenly buzzing?).

But beyond the rat's nest of wires and power bricks, controlling basic things like volume, voice selection, in-line effects, transpose, velocity filtering, etc. is often much simpler with an all-in-one unit. I've already tried the bits and pieces approach in our studio and it didn't work very well, at least for our uses. Many musicians are fairly non-tech savvy, and simply can't cope with a highly complex setup.

The industry may get around to our needs one of these years. It's entirely within the realm of doable and for a reasonable price right now. But don't hold your breath, continental drift moves faster.

That's not exactly the point I was trying to make. That a MIDI connection requires, well, a MIDI connection cable is fairly obvious .

I had hoped for something more though. Going the MIDI controller plus external device route adds a fair amount of clutter and wiring you'd simply not need if you use a single board for that.

You need the midi connection

You need access to your PC to control the setup

You need to route the audio back to where you're playing

You can no longer use the headphone jack since you usually can't route audio back to the device that's the midi controller.

If you route the audio back to the monitors you need a dedicated sound interface/preamp combo because the line outs are usually not powerful/too lo fidelity for that.

You have to buy and lay all of those wires

etc.

There's also the usability aspect since you now have to control most aspects of your sound via PC.

According to the screens the controller is not exactly built for placing equipment on top of it since the top surface is curved.

If it's "just" a great key action in a "pretty box" then it's probably not for me.

I assume that some way down the road the action in the VPC will be available in one of the MP6/MP10 successors then I'd have everything plus the ability to use builtins and reduce clutter.

Thanks for your reply, though.

My wild guess is that there's some flash-memory based VST player (why not a whole PC, hence the play on words VPC) in the VPC. You use the laptop to only upload the corresponding VST to the VPC and make some settings. That's why the VST needs to be "approved for Kawai VPC" - to support panel buttons, program changes, etc without a PC screen and a mouse. This way you have a digital piano with interchangeable sounds. Once you buy the VST (Pianoteq, Ivory, etc.) and upload it to the VPC, you'll have a standalone unit which you only power up and play. That's what "out of the box" means.

I'd bet few beers on this

Now that on the other hand would be exactly what I'd be looking for. So I hope your guess is spot on.

Now, that might get me back into the VST game.

The "rats nest" of wires needed presently is very definitely a turnoff.

My guess is that only a USB cable is needed to fully use VPC. Computer will generate sound and in many setups it will already be connected to speakers or sound system. Controller will be powered through USB, no need to plug it to a socket wall (anyway, USB devices can be powered though wall sockets using the proper adapter).

I hope it will probably also include MIDI connections for optionally use it through MIDI interface. For a pure MIDI controller, anything else is needed. No need for audio input or outputs.

At least MIDI controllers I had in the past worked this way, but maybe this will be different, besides the action it sports that is the main selling point (at least for me). Just keep it at a reasonable price and you may have a winner in your hands. Not a cup of tea for everybody, but definitely it is for me, if it works as I imagine it.

Regards,
Kurt.-

That would be great if it were powered by USB so only one cable had to run out of the controller. Using a laptop the whole setup wouldn't require an outlet (if you are using headphones).

I wonder, is it technically possible to run audio over USB from the computer back to the VPC in the same cable and have it come out of speakers built into the VPC? I don't think this is likely in the VPC, but if a controller had an audio interface and speakers built into it, it seems like in principle you could run this whole thing with just a laptop and the keyboard with one USB cable and nothing else.

Most likely the VPC will not have speakers, which makes sense. That would make the question moot. I'm just thinking out loud here.

I was also thinking about an audio interface built into the VPC but then why should you connect your speakers to the VPC instead of to your laptop's audio card? It won't even save you a cable. It'll make sense only if you have speakers in the VPC.

A low latency audio interface integrated into the controller? Mmmm... It makes sense specially for a laptop setup (audio intefaces in laptops aren't usually great). But I think drivers will be needed for using the audio interface (preferably ASIO for Windows... and there are other OSes), and not sure if Kawai has the expertise to develop and maintain the hardware and software needed for that... unless it is an already existing third party audio interface.

I don't know if it is feasible... but the idea is interesting at first look.

On a second look, I think it adds too much complexity (drivers). Without it the VPC is a trouble free plug & play hardware. And if needed, an external USB audio interface can be used anytime.

We'll see soon...

Regards,
Kurt.-

I'd bet a few beers VPC = "Virtual Piano Controller" because it means just that: it's a USB powered MIDI controller with a funky curved top that will get scratched up by the bottom of your laptop skating around and you'll have difficulty setting speakers on and nothing else. The "approved" thing is likely just some kind of pre worked out software driver settings / interface to 3rd part PC software products. Though I would love to be wrong.

Personally, I don't want a PC or an i-anything anywhere near my DP. It has to have fantastic sounds built-in, and it should be able to record & play MIDI files and render them to WAV on a USB thumb drive. Music rest, decent built-in speakers, lightish weight, smallish practical form factor, straightforward UI, and quality 3 pedal unit would be big pluses. Why does the industry find this particular configuration so abhorrent?

It's hard for me not to see the VPC (if it is what I imagine it is) as a throwing-in-the-towel move - they're completely giving up on trying to put recording quality sounds in a DP. If so, it's a bad omen for the short term.

Yes, it should be feasible to put the audio interface in the controller, and use a single USB cable. M-Audio have, or at least had some controllers that had this - I can't see any on their web site any more. Here's the user manual for one though - the M-Audio Ozone

I recall James saying some time ago that the Yamaha Motif(?) also has this.

Greg.

It does make sense in many ways for me too, I speculated about such a solution too.
A not integrated external USB audio interface with not only a low latency but high audio quality specification is awailable for 100-200$ - I think USB can easily keep up sound quality wise with high end DPs (my EMU 0404 USB does). An integrated solution would imply production costs of a fraction of that price. And if sound quality is HiFi, there is no much room left for improvement for normal use. If You need more (special surround e.g.), you can go with MIDI and own interface.

Other than selection sound system in general (studio monitor boxes, subwoofer), there are many more aspects and compromises and variability of needs where the decision should be left to customers. (Quality, price, ambient room and apropriate power, subwoofer conf, etc.)

The only things which are on the negative list: the convenience of the all-in-one package with a DP and such special achievements than a soundBoard of a CA95. You cannot have all at once - just as one cannot play violine solo on an acoustic grand as well.

Ah, here's the M-Audio board I was really thinking of - the Pro Keys Sono 88. User manual: http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/manuals/080905_PKS88_UG_EN01.pdf

I haven't looked at the back panel, but given that it only came with one USB cable, I think it's safe to assume that it only needs one USB cable for everything.

Not in production any more though, apparently.

Greg.

I see it differently. There is a genuine demand for a great key action from people who already have sounds they are happy with (ie, software). The key action can therefore be bought more cheaply by the consumer if there isn't a whole load of sounds and the required associated technology stuffed in there too. And the key action only needs to be bought once.

I reckon it is just Kawai responding to what (it hopes) is a suppressed demand out there for such a thing.

I read James remarks (not too many wires required) as:

- USB2 or 3 (better) connection to your computer for MIDI and (!) audio. The VPC then has balanced , unbalanced high quality outputs to connect to your speaker setup.

- Drives for audio and USB midi are class-complaint, meaning no driver issues / continuous updates required.

If that is the case - I'm happy.

> Build-in audio out from laptops = crap in comparison to a good audio interface and usually only comes with mini-jack connectors.
> Second problem is the ground loop you may get when connecting the computer through USB to your DP (for MIDI) and simultaneously hook up an audio path.

Now it's : place your laptop on your controller, connect USB cable, DONE - off you go...

I think we can expect class compliance. Built in audio interface and speakers...I still think that's a pipe dream. I may be wrong.

I don't believe it will have speakers. With that in mind, an audio interface is quite unlikely.

Realistically, I believe this will be a regular MIDI controller with some software provided for tweaking the touch curve as is shown on the laptop screen. And that's it. Digital piano manufacturers have clearly shown their strategy of avoiding revolutionary products. They only provide tiny bits of improvement with each new model. And that has been proven to work for the last few decades of digital pianos.

Well...if you can hook up your laptop with one cable, without ANY additional gear and wiring and go HQ straight out of the DP to your monitor set, that is a great +++. Been on my list for a long time.

I thought a step in that direction would be the ES7 with it's audio input, but at that time didn't realize it didn't provide a real state of the art audio IN and proper volume/balance control. That meant workarounds and (again) extra boxes and wiring. Perhaps the MP10 audio IN , combined with it's balanced outs would have done a better job in that respect, but it may miss the separate volume control for audio in too - I don't know. Not to blame any of these products, but to emphasize that they don't offer a simple and HQ audio integration. BTW I don't care if it doesn't have build-in speakers anymore - I found I use them less and less anyway, having good monitors and good heaphones.

So a high end keybed + BU audio-interface/routing is a nice minimal setup, especially when you can place your computer on top within easy reach. MP6 couldn't do that, ES7 couldn't do that, the MP10 neither, so the VPC is a good concept in that direction. Hope it's got it all (USB audio/midi + audio out integration). If not, it still looks like a great no frills piano-keybed for your virtual instrument setup.

Here's my take on the K-VPC. The "approved" icons for Ivory II and for Pianoteq are for the VPC's operating system. Normally, you would have to purchase ILock for Ivory, and the Pianoteq virtual piano has its on operating system. I'm guessing they are giving Kawai permission to use the VPC's onboard software to run these two virual pianos. The software may or may not be included with the board. James stated that this would cost less than an MP10. That leads me to believe virtual piano software is included. Other than the key action mechanism, a controller should not be that expensive to produce. I'm guessing RM3 and the 3 sensor mechanism.

Now here's the question that's a deal maker. Will Nord's library also be available? If that is the case, we move from uploading software from CD's to downloading from the internet directly to Nord boards and the K-VPC. You can see why that would be a game-changer. Unlimited possibilities for future new virtuals. Let's hope that one of those two remaining logos is Nord. I'd opt for Galaxy Vintage D for the fourth. Can't wait for Thusday!!!!