Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum From what size does a grand piano make sense?

A big upright Piano like the Yamaha U3 is 131 cm (51 1/2") high.

A small grand like the Yamaha C1 has a depth of 161cm (5'3") (and there are even smaller grands).

The depth measurement for the grands includes the keyboards, so I guess the C1 and U3 have a pretty similar size on their soundboards?.

So, from what size does a grand piano make sense compared to a nice upgright piano like Yamaha U3 or U1? Something like the C1? Or bigger, perhaps like the C3 186cm (6'1")?

There is more to the comparison than just size. A grand's action is almost always better (more sensitive and dynamic) than an upright's.

That being said, I've liked the sound of many large uprights more than small grands.

My grand is 5'10 and I would want to go any smaller (unless it was a Steingraeber with a carbon soundboard--those are a whole different animal)

Large uprights can sound great. I've been impressed with the Yamaha U3.

I wouldn't go smaller than 5'0" on grands. Smaller than this they tend to have a "small grand" sound that I don't like. No, the smaller grands don't sound the same as a concert grand. For me the goal for a piano isn't to sound like a concert grand (IMHO even most 7' pianos don't sound like concert grands). The goal is to be a wonderful musical instrument. Many grands in the 5'7" range to the 5'10" are stunning, superb musical instruments (Steinway M, Baldwin R, etc.)

As already mentioned, grands have an advantage with the actions. Another important advantage is how the sound projects from the instrument. Most uprights throw their sound straight into the wall. Grands have the soundboard suspended in the room, where sound can project from both the top and the bottom.

So to answer your question directly: I think the C1 makes plenty of sense.

Personally, I would not bother with a grand smaller than 5'5 or so. The bass notes will be disappointing on smaller grands. Of course, the action on a good grand, even smaller ones, is often better than uprights just due to the fact that the hammers have to be altered to hit vertical strings rather than horizontal.

So given a choice between the C1 and the U3, I'd probably still go with the C1 just for the feel...and look to upgrade in a few years to a larger grand .

The smallest grand I heard with pretty good sound was 5'8". Below that they usually sound not so good. But uprights sound not so good either so the answer could also be 'any size'.

But regarding the action, a grand might make sense for the smaller sizes as well

This is really a personal decision that goes beyond string length, board surface, projection, and action geometry. Each of the members who has replied has given you a sincere thoughtful response. Yet the responses are quite different.

At least in my market, a new C1 costs considerably more than a U3, That may be a factor. Whether you want your piano to boom and roar is another factor. Most members here value a deep resonant bass highly. Even so, there are players, quite good players, who find that quality annoying in a home piano. Power sells. Balance and whisper ability don't exert the same pull on most shoppers.

There are also subjective and even subconscious factors that are valid considerations in making a decision. If you go against your own instincts to the extent that the piano you buy can only be thought of as transitional and you then spend a lot of time dreaming of your next piano, you are setting yourself up for chronic upgrade fever (which is a boon to piano retailers but a curse to piano buyers).

Whatever it is you choose, make sure it can play quietly without effort and makes your fingers feel secure and expressive.

Don't worry about the size. If you like the sound -- its big enough. Once you listen to them in the store, what you like would be obvious.

It has to fit in your house!

First, thank you all for your answers!

Malkin: Yes, so now I'm thinking about which wall to remove!

Although your point is reasonable, I think you're missing the point.

When people ask questions like this it's because they're looking for generalizations/guidelines that can help them select a piano. Many buyers are not that confident in just using their own ears and fingers to decide. If they were the much of the discussion on the Piano Forum and books like The Piano Buyer would not be around.

"From what size does a grand piano make sense?"

rlinkt's answer makes the most sense and nails the point. If an owner is perfectly happy with a 4'-8" grand, there is no need to respond with a grand case of pianist envy.

The standard position for grands has often been same as for cars: "bigger is better"

Today, this is not necessarily true at least not to the same extent as often is suspected.

Some makers actually do offer very viable musical options at smaller sizes while others [most...] simply offer entry level at that size.[ same is true sometimes for uprights...]

IMHO it's all *intent* and *willingness* by manufacturer.

Don't forget grands around 5' or slightly above are generally 'less profit making' so there often is a "built in bias" by the maker. This can easily be seen when design, parts and components are very different between the different sizes.

However, smaller grands can indeed be very nice musical instruments provided they have been specifically designed for this purpose.

You just have to find the right one: luckily those pianos *do* exist in today's market.

Norbert

I played a Steinway baby grand at a store (it is around 5' I believe), and it sounded very nice to me. Better than all verticals they had in the showroom (but they all were lower priced though).
But some other 'babies' did not sound better.

The reason people ask questions like the one the OP did is often that they do not think they have the experience or expertise to know how to judge a piano's tone and touch. They do not feel they are making an informed decision based just using "do you like it?" as the criterion. And I think their hesitation to just use their own judgement is very reasonable since most pianists don't have extensive experience playing and auditioning many different pianos.

And that's why it is necessary to bolster their confidence in making their own choice. If they like a given piano, of any shape or size, they will have made the best decision for themself, not for others.

Sometimes you start finding pitfalls after hours of playing, but do not notice them at first.
At least I find advice like from pianobuyer.com regarding the size useful.

Can't agree at all.

They may have made a reasonable decision but I think a very limited decision based on a very limited exposure to a small number of pianos and based on their current level of playing and discernment of piano tone/touch. Even if they visit a store 10 times and play the pianos for an hour each time(something few will do). I think that is a very short period to learn about pianos. The average tech might play more pianos in a week than the average pianist plays in their lifetime.

Many people realize that they want their decision to be one they will be happy with for a long time, not just one that they like based on very limited experience. They also realize that even if they are confident about their evaluation of tone there are technical issues about a piano they do not understand that may be important in the decision making process.

If that were the case, unless a person is a piano tech or concert artist, a piano should not be purchased by anyone.

It's time to hire the consultants with hourly fees.

Well, I think you've got my situation right. It takes time to learn what you like, and you want to avoid making costly mistakes. Let me compare to other areas where I'm a little more experienced. Buying my first finer watch I bought a much to showy one. Buying my first HiFi I focused too much on the low freq. reproduction, only to find there were no high end freq. in my new speakers...

Often as a beginner you are wowed by the extremes, and only later you learn to appreciate the subtle differences more refined products bring. This process can easily cost you much money, I try to fast forward by asking experienced people in this case!

Playing a grand piano is a very different experience from playing an upright. A C3 sound and feels like a big piano while the C2 and the C1 sound and feel like small pianos. I would rather have a C1 than a U3 even with the small grand piano sound and feel because grand pianos are just better in terms of quality. I know lots of people disagree, because they care only about bass, the bigger the bass the better sort of thing. I care far more about quality than just bass power. Having said that, I would get the largest grand piano my home and wallet could tolerate.