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Re: Kawai VPC
davinwv #2020872 01/25/13 02:33 AM
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I probably could have lived with the chosen trade offs of the VPC but the fact that support for all of its features is windows only is a deal breaker to me.


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Re: Kawai VPC
davinwv #2020877 01/25/13 02:47 AM
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@Bogs; seems like you're talking about an ES7 for the requirements you describe.

@James;
- is there a Mac version of he touch curve editor in the make ?
- And can you, or can you not easily and secure place a laptop on the (curved) surface, which is the thing 99% of the potential VPC buyers are going to do . Where else do your SW Piano's come from.
- is there already a suggested retail pricing for the European marked available ? The US price doesn't say much in that respect ; history learns the euro price can still be quite different , as with the ES 7.

I personally don't regret not seeing a mod-wheel. There seems to be enough space on the surface to add your own additional gear, containing all the controls you want. I like the stripped down , no frills approach to make it a piano first and suit yourself to fill in for all the features you miss. There will probably an mp10 follow up somewhere in the future for people who really want it all in one package AND with the new rm3 II or GF. That is NOT what his VPC pretends to be.

Still I hope an average 15" laptop will fit easily on top - that's the only thing I worry about reading about the curved surface. On the foto the small notebook finds it place, but there are plenty of bigger laptops around..., perhaps Kawai can make an anti-slip accessoire with roughly a laptop footprint, that you can lay on top of the VPC. Doesn't have to cost the world- just foam or rubber like material . Small gesture that would immediately quiet all critical remarks on that subject.

Last edited by JFP; 01/25/13 02:49 AM.
Re: Kawai VPC
davinwv #2020878 01/25/13 03:00 AM
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Oh...after seeing the pics on Kraft and remembering the endless discussions about a good music paper rest for the mp10 I'm a bit surprised to see the same old music stand design again on th VPC ? Why not the nice translucent music stand that comes with the es7 additional accessories ?!

Beats me - forgot to listen ?
Still too many of those old paper rests in stock ;-)
Some people at Kawai like the current design too much ?

It's only a small part of the package, but perfection is in the detail. A missed opportunity IMHO. Maybe an after market accessoire ? VPC design is great, a nice and functional (!) music rest completes the design.

Re: Kawai VPC
Kawai James #2020895 01/25/13 04:25 AM
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James, unless headphones are used clutter will come with the audio interface/monitors (and laptop of course. I've seen how the lack of a stand takes from the good looks for the MP10 so I think more reason with VPC1).
Hence I see the need for a wooden stand; It adds to the classy look for sure; but also with proper design has the potential to tuck that clutter behind. With clever design (like in office desks) even keep the cables all stuck at the top rear of the wooden stand.

And I agree with JFP that the paper rest is truly ugly. From a design perspective feels like an after thought.

Update:
Ok, here is a nice video from the Namm floor about the VPC1 key action (brought over from another forum).. enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoktYu4D9HU

Last edited by Wave1; 01/25/13 05:21 AM.

Wave1,

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Re: Kawai VPC
Kawai James #2020935 01/25/13 06:13 AM
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@James: Something needs to be done about the Windows only software. Given the broad acceptance of Macs in this game a MacOS and/or iOS version of the software (for iPads) is needed (ideally for other OS as well!).

And of course this guy here would want to be able to edit touch curves without buying a new computer!



Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Re: Kawai VPC
davinwv #2020945 01/25/13 06:38 AM
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To summarize my earlier remarks:

VPC - great product, but a few suggestions:

1) If the surface is too much curved for an average 15" laptop to find a save place; offer an accessory (foam/rubber) that will make the placement of a laptop easy and save.
2) Make a Mac version of the curve editor (must!)
3) Make another, better and stylish paper rest - as an after market accessory

For the rest ; cool machine

Last edited by JFP; 01/25/13 07:47 AM.
Re: Kawai VPC
maurus #2020952 01/25/13 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by maurus
@James: Something needs to be done about the Windows only software. Given the broad acceptance of Macs in this game a MacOS and/or iOS version of the software (for iPads) is needed (ideally for other OS as well!).

And of course this guy here would want to be able to edit touch curves without buying a new computer!


Maybe it could be easily ported using Wine.

Re: Kawai VPC
davinwv #2020953 01/25/13 07:13 AM
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Maybe. But still.

Re: Kawai VPC
maurus #2020954 01/25/13 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by maurus
Maybe. But still.

To be clear, I was suggesting that Kawai might be able to do that port pretty easily. It's not something I would want them to ask of a consumer.

Re: Kawai VPC
anotherscott #2020956 01/25/13 07:19 AM
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Ah. Yes, they should do it.

Re: Kawai VPC
Kawai James #2020957 01/25/13 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
On a similar note, it's perhaps worth pointing out the 'wife acceptance factor' (WAF) of the VPC1. We often hear from folks wishing to buy an MP10 or similar such stage piano, but their other half simply will not allow it in the living room. I believe the clutter-free top surface of the VPC1 may help in this respect.

And even the lack of pitch and mod wheels. I see the appeal of it not looking tech. But yes, for that market, a matching wooden stand makes sense. Maybe with a closed-door cubby that could hold a laptop (on a pull-out shelf maybe?), with cables fed out the back, and maybe some discretely mounted jacks that one could cable to the ports of the computer held within.

Re: Kawai VPC
anotherscott #2020966 01/25/13 08:02 AM
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+1


Wave1,

Yamaha P-155
Re: Kawai VPC
maurus #2020975 01/25/13 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by maurus
@James: Something needs to be done about the Windows only software. Given the broad acceptance of Macs in this game a MacOS and/or iOS version of the software (for iPads) is needed (ideally for other OS as well!).

And of course this guy here would want to be able to edit touch curves without buying a new computer!


+1

Re: Kawai VPC
davinwv #2020984 01/25/13 08:42 AM
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Oh god ...... My predictions come true in buckets !


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: Kawai VPC
Kawai James #2020986 01/25/13 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
The following is an extract from the 'Q&A' document prepared for the website:

Quote
6. VPC Editor software/preset memories
Q. Does the VPC Editor support Mac OS?
A. No, the VPC Editor does not currently support Mac OS.

Q. I’m a Mac user – does this mean that I cannot use the VPC1?
A. No, the VPC1 will still perform beautifully as a virtual piano controller with your Mac – just like the MP10, MP6, and other Kawai digital pianos. Moreover, you can still take advantage of the pre-loaded ‘Approved Touch Curves’ by selecting the desired memory from the VPC1 itself.

However, it will not be possible to make changes to internal touch curves, velocity offsets, or adjust the VPC1’s advanced MIDI settings.


Kind regards,
James
x


James...
I want to make sure I understand your Q/A. The operator's manual also states that the VPC does not support Mac O.S. for it's Kawai USB midi driver. Does this mean that with a Mac computer, the USB out to computer interface is rendered useless, and that I must then connect with additional midi in and out wires? If there is no Kawai USB midi driver onboard for interfacing with the Mac, would my Mac computer and the VPC work by way of the USB connection?

Please bear with me, but I'm still confused about the Touch Curve settings. According to the literature, these are manually assigned. How then will I be able to do that without benefit of the VPC editor?

Finally, the point is made that once assigned to one of the five memory slots, the computer is no longer needed. Would not the computer be necessary anyway to play the VST? This makes it sound as though the board will play a VST without a computer; i.e., just sit and play... no computer hookup.

I am seriously interested because of the action of the VPC as a second board for the studio only. However, it is incomprehensible to me that anything having to do with graphics, design, or music would not be supported by Mac OS. Are we to understand these limitations would also apply to Logic and Garage Band? Complete clarification would be much appreciated, and thanks in advance, Sir.
Regards,
H.K.


Keyboards are the best therapy I know of...
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Re: Kawai VPC
davinwv #2021003 01/25/13 09:21 AM
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Macs (and newer Windows machines) don't need drivers.

If all you have access to is a Mac then you'll be able to use it as a MIDI controller through USB just fine, you just won't be able to edit the touch curves.


Playing since April 2010.
Kawai MP10
Re: Kawai VPC
JFP #2021009 01/25/13 09:30 AM
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JFP,

Originally Posted by JFP
- is there a Mac version of he touch curve editor in the make ?


Currently, no.

Originally Posted by JFP
- can you, or can you not easily and secure place a laptop on the (curved) surface,


Well, I expect this depends on the construction and size of the laptop. If the laptop has small rubber feet it should sit snuggly on top. If not, a sheet of rubber or foam will do the job. As for size, the top surface is 24 cm deep, which should be sufficient for most laptops:

[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by JFP
Where else do your SW Piano's come from.


A desktop computer, perhaps?

Originally Posted by JFP
- is there already a suggested retail pricing for the European marked available ?


I'm aware of an approximate figure, but do not know if this will be the final price. My recommendation would be to contact Kawai Europe.

Originally Posted by JFP
Still I hope an average 15" laptop will fit easily on top - that's the only thing I worry about reading about the curved surface.


While the top surface is not perfectly flat, as you can probably see in the video/pictures that have been posted, it's hardly rounded like an SV-1.

Originally Posted by JFP
On the foto the small notebook finds it place, but there are plenty of bigger laptops around...


The computer shown in the teaser images was an 11" laptop, not a netbook (it certainly wasn't my little old Dell...). Yes, there are bigger laptops, but as noted above, the 24" depth should be sufficient.

Originally Posted by JFP
perhaps Kawai can make an anti-slip accessoire with roughly a laptop footprint, that you can lay on top of the VPC. Doesn't have to cost the world- just foam or rubber like material .


Nice idea, but to be honest, it'd probably be easier and cheaper for the consumer to simply buy an anti-slip rubber/foam matt themselves from a hardware store. I recently purchased a pack of rubber/foam feet to stick to the underside of my pre-amps, preventing them from slipping around when placed on top of my Nord. Cost me 100 yen - problem solved.

Originally Posted by JFP
Oh...after seeing the pics on Kraft and remembering the endless discussions (Slight over exaggeration...?) about a good music paper rest for the mp10 I'm a bit surprised to see the same old music stand design again on th VPC ? Why not the nice translucent music stand that comes with the es7 additional accessories ?!


The VPC1 uses the same music rest as the MPs models. The ES7 music rest is a different design/size.

Originally Posted by JFP
Beats me - forgot to listen ?


In the five years or so that I've been a member of PianoWorld, I recall seeing two posts on this 'problem' - one of which concluded with the original poster simply using a piece of A3-sized art board (again regularly available from the $1/100 yen store) to support his individually photocopied sheets of paper from flopping over. Moreover, as the image I posted above (with the printed score) demonstrates, this is a non-issue when using proper (i.e. purchased) score books.

Originally Posted by JFP
Still too many of those old paper rests in stock ;-)
Some people at Kawai like the current design too much ?


Perhaps it's not cost productive to redesign and re-engineer a music rest because of a couple of reports about individually photocopied sheets of music flopping over?

Originally Posted by JFP
VPC design is great, a nice and functional (!) music rest completes the design.


I agree - it's rare to find a MIDI controller that includes a music rest.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai VPC
anotherscott #2021016 01/25/13 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott

To be clear, I was suggesting that Kawai might be able to do that port pretty easily. It's not something I would want them to ask of a consumer.


Indeed. I've not seen this particular software, but porting a software that has a curve editor and can communicate with an USB MIDI interface seems a doable software challenge, even for a single developer that has the knowledge on the target operating system.

Regards,
Kurt.-

Re: Kawai VPC
kurtie #2021018 01/25/13 09:52 AM
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Big +1 on the need for Mac editor.

Re: Kawai VPC
kurtie #2021021 01/25/13 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kurtie
porting a software that has a curve editor and can communicate with an USB MIDI interface seems a doable software challenge, even for a single developer that has the knowledge on the target operating system.

With Wine you don't even need any specific knowledge of the target OS. It basically depends on what the original program was written with and what calls it uses, but in many cases, especially for relatively simple programs, Wine can create a straight port for you. It won't be the prettiest Mac app (basically, looks like a Windows app), but it will function. At least that's my understanding, I haven't used it myself.

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