Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
97 registered members (Beakybird, anamnesis, Aspiring, Anita Potter, 28 invisible), 1,419 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2019152 - 01/22/13 04:21 PM out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3
surfingthetide Offline
Junior Member
surfingthetide  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Hi! Frequent lurker here.

Do you all think it matters to a toddler whether he hears in-tune music vs. flat music? Does it impact the toddlers singing voice?

I love the size of the keys, the substantial feel of, and the deep sound of my 1910 upright. It is in terrible condition though, and it sounds flat, even for the few minutes it stays in tune after the tuning.

To voice it or fix any of it up would cost more than its "worth." I have a digital piano too, but its not as much fun to play. I wonder about an out of tune piano's effect on my child's future singing voice (or more likely- her lack of). Any thoughts?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2019160 - 01/22/13 04:44 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Out of tune pianos are detrimental to musical enjoyment and development, particularly with respect to ear training (which is important). Children (and adults) are also more likely to quit if the piano sounds bad. Sorry to be blunt, but if your upright is not capable of being tuned, and/or needs other expensive repairs, it should be disposed of.

#2019168 - 01/22/13 05:05 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,501
Chris Leslie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Chris Leslie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,501
Canberra, ACT, Australia
Beethoven is absolutely correct. Do not compromise your child's musical development and appreciation by going cheap.


Chris Leslie ARPT
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
#2019186 - 01/22/13 05:35 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member
accordeur  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
Québec, Canada
Let's not condemn the piano without seeing it. I've saved many old pianos with CA glue, an inexpensive repair.


Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2019193 - 01/22/13 05:49 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: accordeur]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Originally Posted by accordeur
Let's not condemn the piano without seeing it. I've saved many old pianos with CA glue, an inexpensive repair.


I'd be cool with that if we were talking about a 40 or 50 year old piano in otherwise decent working order. A 1910 upright in "terrible" shape? Not a chance.

#2019202 - 01/22/13 06:14 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3
surfingthetide Offline
Junior Member
surfingthetide  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Well boo. I really loooooove playing this piano in particular. My piano tuner showed me the whip-its are all slack and the felt is all soft. It only stays in tune about 4 months.

I don't like playing other pianos or keyboards as much as this one. Only uprights have the big keys my fingers love, and uprights are either old or too expensive frown .

#2019250 - 01/22/13 07:11 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,364
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,364
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by accordeur
I've saved many old pianos with CA glue, an inexpensive repair.

I just treated the pin block of my 100 year old Conover Cable upright with the CA glue; the pins that were a little loose are definitely tighter and she is holding a tuning nicely. I'm glad I was able to add a little more life to the old girl. smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#2019254 - 01/22/13 07:15 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: Rickster]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member
accordeur  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
Québec, Canada
Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by accordeur
I've saved many old pianos with CA glue, an inexpensive repair.

I just treated the pin block of my 100 year old Conover Cable upright with the CA glue; the pins that were a little loose are definitely tighter and she is holding a tuning nicely. I'm glad I was able to add a little more life to the old girl. smile

Rick


smile


Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
#2019259 - 01/22/13 07:26 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
To answer the original question - Yes, it could be detrimental. Imagine a toddler singing "Twinkle, Twinkle" based on the pitches from a piano which is wildly out of tune. There are the instances when he is hearing more than one pitch from any given key. (poor unisons) He won't know it's wrong, but it is the only reference he has so he learns that it is "right."

Our sense of pitch and interval (western) is learned at a very early age. We learn a scale based on 1/2 steps. Other cultures use drastically different scales and intervals.

It is the development of the ear, with proper references, which allows singing "on pitch."


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2019261 - 01/22/13 07:28 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Oops! - Sorry. I now see that your child is a "she" and not a "he."


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2019265 - 01/22/13 07:34 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3
surfingthetide Offline
Junior Member
surfingthetide  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Thank you for your wonderful responses!

Despite the fact I wish out of tune pianos did NOT affect singing voices, I am glad to find some answers.

I've been looking everywhere to find out the answer to this question. I didn't know what resources to look in!

Thank you! smile

#2019300 - 01/22/13 08:50 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,056
musicpassion Offline
2000 Post Club Member
musicpassion  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,056
California, USA
Originally Posted by surfingthetide
Thank you for your wonderful responses!

Despite the fact I wish out of tune pianos did NOT affect singing voices, I am glad to find some answers.

I've been looking everywhere to find out the answer to this question. I didn't know what resources to look in!

Thank you! smile


I agree with everyone else who has posted that out of tune pianos are detrimental to musical development.

However I do want to point out an important distinction: it's her ear training and ability to hear and match pitches, etc. that can be damaged.

When a singer talks about damaging their voice they usually mean the actual physical instrument - the vocal chords etc. (I'm not a professional singer). I don't see any reason why an out of tune piano would damage the voice in this way.


Pianist and Piano Teacher
#2019311 - 01/22/13 09:09 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
It is a horrible thing to see as a technician a piano that is 2 keys flat of pitch with a parent that says "it's good enough for my child to practice on." Trying to convince a person like that is almost like talking to a brick wall in many cases. Their ears are closed and their mind is made up before it even came out of their mouth.

It's nice to read that someone cares. smile


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#2019898 - 01/23/13 08:05 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 389
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member
Nash. Piano Rescue  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 389
East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
Something to consider though is all instruments of that era will be flat. If you get a Clarinet from 1910 it will also sound flat. You had that international pitch ( improved scale) to deal with. The big antique pianos sound great if they can hold A440 and dont have clicky, squeaky actions. One of the secrets to making them sound great is new bass strings, if everything else isn't shot.

It depends on what kind of music you are playing too. If you like die hard classical you might not like an old upright. If you are Alan Jackson playing in the back of a pickup truck then it might be perfect smile


J. Christie
Nashville Piano Rescue
www.NashvillePianoRescue.com
East Nashville
Bowling Green, KY
Scottsville KY.
Chamber of Commerce
Member/Sponsor

Putting inspiration in the hands of area musicians
Through restoration/renovation
#2019924 - 01/23/13 09:03 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,590
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member
ChatNoir  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,590
Encino, California
I grew up with an old Brödrene Hals piano, out of tune and heavy birdcage action. But, it was all we had. And I learned to play without a teacher, I sing on pitch and now cringe by the sound of an out-of-tune note. I guess our inborn talents are stronger than any old piano. In or out of tune.


Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.
#2020089 - 01/24/13 03:37 AM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,880
wouter79 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
wouter79  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,880
>Do you all think it matters to a toddler whether he hears in-tune music vs. flat music? Does it impact the toddlers singing voice?

First, I'm not a teacher and no expert on this. But I don't see much evidence for above remarks that "Out of tune pianos are detrimental to musical enjoyment and development".

I agree that the piano intervals need to be in tune.

But the absolute pitch is much less relevant IMHO. I think it's much more important that you like the sound and that the intervals are tuned properly than that the absolute pitch is correct.

I heard that toddlers have a chance to learn absolute pitch. And out-of-tune pianos might prevent that from developing. But I'm not so convinced that absolute pitch is such a bless. In practice, many pianos are a bit off; orchestras pick a higher pitch (A443); old instruments and baroque orchestras pick A420 to A425. In the past concert pitch was A430.6. Some even reported A370. Händels tuning fork was A421.5.




[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#2020093 - 01/24/13 03:51 AM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: wouter79]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489

Originally Posted by wouter79
First, I'm not a teacher and no expert on this. But I don't see much evidence for above remarks that "Out of tune pianos are detrimental to musical enjoyment and development".


Well, as you said, you're not an expert. It is important for budding musicians to develop a good sense of tone, which can't be done if the piano is out of tune, particularly if the unisons are out. Also, kids don't enjoy playing if the piano sounds bad or doesn't play right. I see it all the time.


Originally Posted by wouter79
But the absolute pitch is much less relevant IMHO. I think it's much more important that you like the sound and that the intervals are tuned properly than that the absolute pitch is correct.


If you're a pianist, it is perhaps less relevant, but that doesn't mean it's irrelevant. If you're a clarinetist, floutist, or a singer, yeah, absolute pitch is pretty darn important if you're playing with a piano, and these musicians will complain if the piano significantly deviates from concert pitch.

#2020237 - 01/24/13 10:10 AM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: wouter79]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Originally Posted by wouter79
>Do you all think it matters to a toddler whether he hears in-tune music vs. flat music? Does it impact the toddlers singing voice?

First, I'm not a teacher and no expert on this. But I don't see much evidence for above remarks that "Out of tune pianos are detrimental to musical enjoyment and development".

I agree that the piano intervals need to be in tune.

But the absolute pitch is much less relevant IMHO. I think it's much more important that you like the sound and that the intervals are tuned properly than that the absolute pitch is correct.

I heard that toddlers have a chance to learn absolute pitch. And out-of-tune pianos might prevent that from developing. But I'm not so convinced that absolute pitch is such a bless. In practice, many pianos are a bit off; orchestras pick a higher pitch (A443); old instruments and baroque orchestras pick A420 to A425. In the past concert pitch was A430.6. Some even reported A370. Händels tuning fork was A421.5.




Yes, it matters a great deal. Toddlers tell us all the time in schools "my piano doesn't sound like my piano teachers piano. It sounds terrible but my parents don't care because they can't hear it." You don't know how many times I hear that in the course of one year. Dozens and dozens and dozens of times.

Yamaha did an extensive study back in the 70's I believe it was and they found that badly out of tune and badly out of pitch pianos, were the NUMBER ONE CAUSE of kids no longer wanting to take lessons. Very, VERY close behind it, almost a number one as well, were pianos that played horribley. Sticking keys. Regulation was way off meaning the touch was all screwy. One note played, the next one didn't. One note played easily, the next note played hard. There is no way that anyone can learn how to properly play on a piano that is A. Out of tune. B. Off from pitch. C plays terribly. D. has notes that do not work.

Yes, there have been MANY studies done to prove this to be true and we as technicians see it on a regular basis and it is true.



Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#2020274 - 01/24/13 11:25 AM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Supply  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Quote
Do you all think it matters to a toddler whether he hears in-tune music vs. flat music? Does it impact the toddlers singing voice?
There are many good reasons for keeping a piano in good playing and sounding condition. However, I do not believe that an out of tune piano impacts children's singing.

Oh, if we could only blame all the out of tune singing in the world on poorly tuned childhood pianos!

#2020482 - 01/24/13 03:31 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,701
JohnSprung Online content
4000 Post Club Member
JohnSprung  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,701
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by surfingthetide
It only stays in tune about 4 months.


Tuning a piano 3 or 4 times a year is about right. It might not be all that bad, and CA glue might help.

The resulting market value will never justify the money you'd put into repairs, but if you love it and want to keep it for a long time, get a second opinion from someone who rebuilds pianos. The decision to junk it should only be based on the opinion of someone who knows how to fix it and has seen it in person.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
#2020501 - 01/24/13 03:52 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: beethoven986]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,880
wouter79 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
wouter79  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,880
Quote
It is important for budding musicians to develop a good sense of tone, which can't be done if the piano is out of tune, particularly if the unisons are out. Also, kids don't enjoy playing if the piano sounds bad or doesn't play right. I see it all the time.


I believe that the whole piano being evenly flat is very different from "unisons out". If the whole piano is evenly flat, it can still play perfectly right and not sound bad.

Quote
If you're a clarinetist, floutist, or a singer, yeah, absolute pitch is pretty darn important if you're playing with a piano, and these musicians will complain if the piano significantly deviates from concert pitch.

Why? These instruments can all be tuned to compensate some flatness, no, they NEED to be tuned all the time!

"It sounds terrible but my parents don't care because they can't hear it." . Those pianos are probably not tuned for years and not evenly flat and have a rotten action. Again, there are different types of being "out of tune" and OP did not talk about bad actions.

Anyone having a ref to that Yamaha extensive research, or other solid research on this?


[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#2020509 - 01/24/13 03:58 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 999
M.O.P. Offline
500 Post Club Member
M.O.P.  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 999
Ocala, Florida
Originally Posted by Jerry Groot RPT
Originally Posted by wouter79
>Do you all think it matters to a toddler whether he hears in-tune music vs. flat music? Does it impact the toddlers singing voice?

First, I'm not a teacher and no expert on this. But I don't see much evidence for above remarks that "Out of tune pianos are detrimental to musical enjoyment and development".

I agree that the piano intervals need to be in tune.

But the absolute pitch is much less relevant IMHO. I think it's much more important that you like the sound and that the intervals are tuned properly than that the absolute pitch is correct.

I heard that toddlers have a chance to learn absolute pitch. And out-of-tune pianos might prevent that from developing. But I'm not so convinced that absolute pitch is such a bless. In practice, many pianos are a bit off; orchestras pick a higher pitch (A443); old instruments and baroque orchestras pick A420 to A425. In the past concert pitch was A430.6. Some even reported A370. Händels tuning fork was A421.5.




Yes, it matters a great deal. Toddlers tell us all the time in schools "my piano doesn't sound like my piano teachers piano. It sounds terrible but my parents don't care because they can't hear it." You don't know how many times I hear that in the course of one year. Dozens and dozens and dozens of times.

Yamaha did an extensive study back in the 70's I believe it was and they found that badly out of tune and badly out of pitch pianos, were the NUMBER ONE CAUSE of kids no longer wanting to take lessons. Very, VERY close behind it, almost a number one as well, were pianos that played horribley. Sticking keys. Regulation was way off meaning the touch was all screwy. One note played, the next one didn't. One note played easily, the next note played hard. There is no way that anyone can learn how to properly play on a piano that is A. Out of tune. B. Off from pitch. C plays terribly. D. has notes that do not work.

Yes, there have been MANY studies done to prove this to be true and we as technicians see it on a regular basis and it is true.



+1


Nancy Fanzlaw
Seamstress for the Band

www.FortePianoGallery.com
Forte' on Facebook

"The piano was God's gift to music." Lou Mason

#2020524 - 01/24/13 04:17 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 918
BeccaBb Offline
500 Post Club Member
BeccaBb  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 918
Fort Frances, On Canada
Do you guys realize that a toddler is a child between the ages of 2 to 3?

LOL wondering what kind of kids you guys are hanging around that can complain about the piano's being out of tune or that they sound different from their teachers!

I'm sure your actually talking about young children here? wink


Becca
Began: 01-12-11
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Roland RD300NX
1947 Gulbranson spinet piano
#2020607 - 01/24/13 05:40 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: wouter79]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Originally Posted by wouter79
Quote
It is important for budding musicians to develop a good sense of tone, which can't be done if the piano is out of tune, particularly if the unisons are out. Also, kids don't enjoy playing if the piano sounds bad or doesn't play right. I see it all the time.


I believe that the whole piano being evenly flat is very different from "unisons out". If the whole piano is evenly flat, it can still play perfectly right and not sound bad.

Quote
If you're a clarinetist, floutist, or a singer, yeah, absolute pitch is pretty darn important if you're playing with a piano, and these musicians will complain if the piano significantly deviates from concert pitch.

Why? These instruments can all be tuned to compensate some flatness, no, they NEED to be tuned all the time!

"It sounds terrible but my parents don't care because they can't hear it." . Those pianos are probably not tuned for years and not evenly flat and have a rotten action. Again, there are different types of being "out of tune" and OP did not talk about bad actions.

Anyone having a ref to that Yamaha extensive research, or other solid research on this?


I wasn't talking about bad actions either or I would have said so. I was talking about tuning. Tuning has nothing to do with the "mechanics of the piano." That's a whole different ball game.

For years, I carried around a copy of Yamaha's study handing them out on a regular basis but I carry enough junk in my trunk as it is. I dumped them 30 years ago. Yamaha may still have the study somewhere. I couldn't tell you. There is proof out there in other studies too. If you read online about musical studies, lots of studies have been done. It does help kids to do better in math for example.

So, your car needs an oil change every 3,000 miles "give or take." You don't believe it's that necessary so you're going to give the car an oil change once ever 15,000 miles instead or longer. How long do you think the car will last under those conditions? In other words, it doesn't matter what you believe. What matters is what's recommended for the product. You can do whatever you like with that information.



Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#2020670 - 01/24/13 07:19 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,831
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,831
New York City
If the unisons are good and the piano is in tune with itself I don't see why it being flat would be detrimental in the slightest. In fact, unless one had perfect pitch I don't think one would even know the piano wasn't at A440. OTOH I'd guess that in this case the piano does have insuromountable problems with the unisons and relative pitch which just makes it unpleasant to listen to.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/24/13 07:20 PM.
#2020684 - 01/24/13 08:01 PM Re: out of tune pianos and childrens singing voices [Re: surfingthetide]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 187
miscrms Offline
Full Member
miscrms  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 187
Phoenix, AZ
IMHO there are multiple valid points here, but they are answers to different questions that its important to differentiate.

- If the child is learning the piano, then certainly having a good piano with good action/touch, and thats well tuned is important to the students enjoyment and likelihood of continuing. That does not appear to be the question the OP is asking.

- If the intervals and unisons are badly out of tune, that could certainly impact a youngsters musical development, as they learn to "do" music by mimicking what they hear, just as they learn to talk by mimicking the voice sounds of the people around them. The OP has not stated this is the case, although it could be, he just stated the piano is flat.

IMHO at this age (2-3) the value of regular exposure to participatory music, and the child's perception of the enjoyment the parents get out of making music are _far_ more important than whether the piano is flat or not. If you can get the unisons and intervals to hold a decent relative pitch (with the help of some minor work if needed), and you enjoy playing the old upright more than the keyboard, I say play on smile

Just my 2c. Or maybe in the case of this piano, its more like 50c wink

Rob


Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
OrganTeq Alpha - from PianoTeq folks at Modartt
by newer player. 12/13/17 06:40 PM
Feeling lost
by hast66. 12/13/17 05:31 PM
dry air, sticking keys
by f4tune81. 12/13/17 12:27 PM
How many Blues players are there here?
by rocket88. 12/13/17 11:34 AM
A pitch 435. Is it right so?
by Maximillyan. 12/13/17 11:26 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,259
Posts2,679,043
Members89,267
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0