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#2019726 - 01/23/13 05:03 PM Spirtual pieces...  
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Where are some of the most 'spiritual' pieces you know? Chopin's 62/1 nocturne just about does it for me.

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#2019753 - 01/23/13 05:36 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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If you define "spiritual" we'll be able to answer better. grin

But whatever it means, I'm pretty sure I'll agree on that Nocturne. thumb

#2019768 - 01/23/13 05:54 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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Spiritual in the non-religious sense of the word.

#2019789 - 01/23/13 06:26 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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As Chopin has already been accounted for, let me give examples from a few other composers (avoiding slow movements from sonatas):

Bach: Aria from the Goldberg/Anna Magdalena Notebook
Mozart: Rondo in A minor, K511
Schubert: Moment musical D780/6
Brahms: Ballade Op.10/4
Rachmaninoff: Etude-tableau Op.33/3


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#2019791 - 01/23/13 06:28 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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Anything marked "Allegro con brio" smile

#2019798 - 01/23/13 06:32 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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But if you don't limit to piano pieces, I'd go with lots of great choral works. But I'm really biased with that too, haha.

#2019801 - 01/23/13 06:36 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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#2019932 - 01/23/13 10:15 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: bennevis]  
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Bach: Aria from the Goldberg/Anna Magdalena Notebook
Mozart: Rondo in A minor, K511
Schubert: Moment musical D780/6
Brahms: Ballade Op.10/4
Rachmaninoff: Etude-tableau Op.33/3

Nice list!!
I don't know about the Anna Magdalena, but the others -- yeah.

Good job particularly mentioning the Schubert, because it's not thought of very much and it's a great example.

Even though I'm still not sure what "spiritual" means. ha

P.S. You really deserve to have a computer. smile

#2019933 - 01/23/13 10:16 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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Quartet for the end of time.

#2019936 - 01/23/13 10:18 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: Orange Soda King]  
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
But if you don't limit to piano pieces, I'd go with lots of great choral works....

But that would be too easy!

For starters, just about any choral work of Bach.
Most movements of the Brahms Requiem.

#2020353 - 01/24/13 02:23 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: Mark_C]  
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Originally Posted by Mark_C

Most movements of the Brahms Requiem.


What do you mean, *most* movements? Which one isn't?? crazy

#2020367 - 01/24/13 02:37 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: LadyChen]  
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Originally Posted by LadyChen
Originally Posted by Mark_C

Most movements of the Brahms Requiem.

What do you mean, *most* movements? Which one isn't?? crazy

Good question.
And you're right.

But, one reason I put it as I did, was.....well, for example, look at Orange Soda King's post. smile
(Which I assume was a joke.)
Most of the next to last movement doesn't seem to me to fit with what we're talking about, although as I've said I still don't know what that really is. ha

#2020399 - 01/24/13 03:22 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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I almost forgot. The beginning of the Polonaise-fantasy and especially the end of the op. 49 Fantasy.

#2020410 - 01/24/13 03:37 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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#2020411 - 01/24/13 03:37 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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My guess is that the “spiritual” context in music is ...

“Of or pertaining to the intellectual and higher endowments of the mind; mental; intellectual.”
(From Wikipedia)

But then individual tastes differ ... some loathe
Bach and Chopin but go dilly about "happy-clappy"
from a pew ... others might question the criterion
"higher endowments of the mind" depending on the
parties involved.

For my own part there are times when even a cowboy wants to blubber ... it could be just a passage or perhaps the passion of the pianist ... recently
Debussy's "La Mer" had me gasping for air with tear-filled eyes ... don't tell anybody else.

Regards, btb


#2020412 - 01/24/13 03:38 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: debrucey]  
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+1 for Quator pour la Fin du Temps!!


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#2020456 - 01/24/13 04:15 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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OK, I'll bite:

Bach: Goldberg Variations (complete); WCT I: C major, C# minor, D# minor, F minor, B minor; WTC II: D major, D# minor, E major; first section of Bb partita and E minor partita; unfinished fugue from Art of the Fugue;

Mozart: slow movement from C major sonata K.545

Beethoven: op.109-111. Large sections of op.106, for me. op.126/3.

Schubert: Should we say every sonata slow movement, or just say everything?

And on and on. Almost everything by Messiaen. But perhaps not so much Debussy (even though he is one of my favorites)?

-J


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
#2020484 - 01/24/13 04:32 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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If we do not limit it to piano music, then I would say just about anything by Bach and Schubert is spiritual, resigned music. Late Beethoven(especially the string quartets and last five sonatas), Brahms late piano pieces, almost anything by Kurtag, and perhaps a few pieces by Chopin.. Although, in my opinion there is always a little bit of crime and conflict in Chopin, he never becomes completely "spiritual" and "wise" in the same way as Bach, Beethoven, Schubert and even Brahms.

#2020489 - 01/24/13 04:40 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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Originally Posted by Joel_W
Spiritual in the non-religious sense of the word.


I don't think you can define "spiritual" by saying what it is not. You need to be more precise by saying what you mean - if you know what you mean.

Just as beauty is often in the eye of the beholder - already often proven on this forum with similarly open-ended questions - if you don't provide your definition of "spiritual," you will get responses that range from the Goldberg Variations to "Good Night, Irene."


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#2020496 - 01/24/13 04:46 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: BruceD]  
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Originally Posted by BruceD
You need to be more precise by saying what you mean... if you don't provide your definition of "spiritual," you will get responses that range from the Goldberg Variations to "Good Night, Irene."


Maybe getting a wide range of responses isn't a bad thing? Maybe the OP's intent was less "let's arrive at a consensus on what spiritual music is", and more "what does 'spiritual music' mean to different people here-- let's see the variety of results".

-J


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
#2020510 - 01/24/13 05:02 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: beet31425]  
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Originally Posted by beet31425
[...]
Maybe getting a wide range of responses isn't a bad thing? Maybe the OP's intent was [...] "what does 'spiritual music' mean to different people here-- let's see the variety of results".

-J


Then, perhaps, he should have said so.

- "Deep River" is a spiritual.
- The fifth movement of Berlioz' "Symphonie fantastique" and Gluck's "Dance of the Blessed Spirits" are "spiritual" because they deal with spiritual beings (ghosts, witches, etc.).
- Maybe "The Entertainer" is spiritual to some because it lifts their spirits.

and

"The Concert Spirituel was one of the first public concert series in existence. The concerts began in Paris in 1725 and ended in 1790[...]The series was founded to provide entertainment during the Easter fortnight and on religious holidays when the other spectacles (the Paris Opera, Comédie-Française, and Comédie-Italienne) were closed. The programs featured a mixture of sacred choral works and virtuosic instrumental pieces."


So ...?


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#2020514 - 01/24/13 05:08 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: BruceD]  
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by beet31425
[...]
Maybe getting a wide range of responses isn't a bad thing? Maybe the OP's intent was [...] "what does 'spiritual music' mean to different people here-- let's see the variety of results".

-J


Then, perhaps, he should have said so.

- "Deep River" is a spiritual.
- The fifth movement of Berlioz' "Symphonie fantastique" and Gluck's "Dance of the Blessed Spirits" are "spiritual" because they deal with spiritual beings (ghosts, witches, etc.).
- Maybe "The Entertainer" is spiritual to some because it lifts their spirits.

So ...?


If you think it's a waste of time to post here, why do it?

#2020515 - 01/24/13 05:09 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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Who said it was a waste of time?


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#2020516 - 01/24/13 05:09 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: BruceD]  
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Joel_W
Spiritual in the non-religious sense of the word.


I don't think you can define "spiritual" by saying what it is not. You need to be more precise by saying what you mean - if you know what you mean.



Or perhaps just look at my examples if you want a feel for what I mean.

#2020519 - 01/24/13 05:12 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: BruceD]  
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Who said it was a waste of time?


Well, "So...?" seems to imply that you think it's a rather pointless topic. Though it may be pointless, this is a forum. We're here to talk about whatever comes to mind. It doesn't have to be dense subject matter.

#2020606 - 01/24/13 06:40 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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Originally Posted by Joel_W
Originally Posted by BruceD
Who said it was a waste of time?


Well, "So...?" seems to imply ...

Sorry...I hate to butt in, but "seems to imply"? I don't know what his/her (sorry...your name *seems* clear but I shouldn't wish to assume.. laugh ) intent with the "so" was, but, um...I'd hate to see someone anywhere from mortally offended to mildly affronted (yourself included...I mean, if s/he *did* mean as you say {which, I'm afraid to say, I'm not sure *was* the message}...well, then perhaps there might have been more tactful ways of putting it, but isn't it important to appreciate what others consider a "waste of time" and respect that? Maybe I'm wrong, but, um...we can't *all* be on board with *everything* and perhaps BruceD simply felt that his/her own opinion wasn't being represented enough and felt a tad chastised by your previous communications {as I'm sure both of you may have felt}...I mean, um, he came in to try and clarify "spiritual" which isn't truly, in and of itself, a bad thing {for people like Mark C}...and I don't mean to have a go at you laugh But...I don't know, it's hardly my place but I just feel it'd be *so* easy for everyone to get along all the time...fool's hope, I know laugh )...
And BruceD...pretty much the same to you...but the other way aroun...you know laugh Oh...and vagueness such as "so" breeds vague interpretation; people may fill in the blanks incorrectly if you're unclear...it's very...spiritual...
Sorry for sticking my oar in laugh
Xxx


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#2020658 - 01/24/13 07:56 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: JoelW]  
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Originally Posted by Joel_W
I almost forgot. The beginning of the Polonaise-fantasy and especially the end of the op. 49 Fantasy.

Hey, you want to mention the end of the the Fantasy but not the Lento Sostenuto middle section? smile

#2020661 - 01/24/13 08:01 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: FSO]  
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Originally Posted by FSO
[...]Sorry for sticking my oar in laugh


Stick your oar wherever you like; it's a free forum.

The "So?" after some (facetious) examples, was an invitation to the OP to articulate his definition of "spiritual"; his examples don't clarify in any way to me what he means by the word.

A dialogue, discussion or even answers to the question don't seem to have any meaning when the term of reference is vague and possibly interpreted differently by many.


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#2020756 - 01/24/13 10:46 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: BruceD]  
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Originally Posted by BruceD

A dialogue, discussion or even answers to the question don't seem to have any meaning when the term of reference is vague and possibly interpreted differently by many.

You're talking about requiring a reference point...but with abstract nouns and emotions it's quite difficult...see, there's nothing we can *point* to when we make the sound "spiritual"...um...that's why we have to settle on vague awareness of what's meant...I mean, what's sadness *precisely*? Distilling away all possible definitions to exclude anger, other negative emotions...the necessity to *define* or be lost to confusion isn't strictly true...I mean, um, spiritual; relating to the spirit in some way...so, not physical or mental but this other...stuffness that fills in the invisible cracks...frankly I think anyone'd have a hard time depicting such a notion...but does it *really* matter if we're talking about different things, as long as we're in the right area? The conversation isn't meaningless, I don't think; we just all get a different interpretation...a bit like music...please, um, I'd love some counter-positions to think on. I agree that the first post was a *tad* brief, but such is the way of the internet and, progressively, the world, unfortunately; it's not really anyone's fault...I don't think.
X


Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3
#2020760 - 01/24/13 10:52 PM Re: Spirtual pieces... [Re: BruceD]  
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Originally Posted by BruceD
A dialogue, discussion or even answers to the question don't seem to have any meaning when the term of reference is vague and possibly interpreted differently by many.

I, on the other hand, am used to trying to answer questions without being clear what they are ha but it's better when they are. [Linked Image]

Originally Posted by FSO
....with abstract nouns and emotions it's quite difficult....that's why we have to settle on vague awareness of what's meant....I mean, what's sadness *precisely*?

Sadness, while complex, is a lot clearer than "spiritual."

P.S. Too many dots. grin

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