Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum What think technicians about of max's temperament?

This is true, but it is challenging to find it when we shall create harmony in three strings and no mistakes. Otherwise, we can go to build the wrong intervals from basic of "false unisons"

Max ,he basis to learn that is to tune right string to the middle one (middle one first tuned)

Listen well for a pure clear tone, no "moaning", no beats (unless false beats )

Then mute the right string and tune the left one with the same tone.

Whatever the tone is if you have the same on both side, you even dont need to tune with the 3 strings together.

Kamin,I do tuning all three of the string as me seems right. I'm plucking or mute (not hear any of the beats, noise or waves) However, if I'm start to check on power kick hammer me there's some extra beats. I'm having doubts and I do not know if I should as tuning the next interval.

try to tune only 2 at once you will see it is easier (but not with plucking, with playng)

Most if not all concert tuner do like that (?)

You can tune with the 3 strings sounding together of course but it is more difficult, I do that when I want to have maximum energy at the attack

The unison "shape" you obtain with first the center string is the most stable in time, in my experience.

As you are used to pluck the strings you can hear easily if the 2 outer strings are exactly the same (the center one a hair lower)

I suspect you finish your unison control with plucking the strings, this gives a too bright tone generally.

Max, you need to be muting strings more. You have wedges? Use them to isolate the string that you are tuning. You only want to be able to hear the note you are tuning to (if it already has a good unison) and the string you are tuning. Then when the first string is set, you can unmute the second one and tune that unison, then the third and tune that. You will be left with a proper, beatless unison.

It is impossible to tune well enough without muting the appropriate strings at the right time. If you don't start doing this then you will never improve!

Use a temperament strip at the beginning to mute everything apart from the middle string in the centre of the piano. Then you can tune the temperament octave without worrying about the unisons. You need to get this right at first. Then set the octaves and the unisons as I describe.

I am in total agreement with Phil.

I thought this thread was about temperament? With the best will in the world, no tuning can possibly be acceptable unless one can first set a scale to work from. I would be a great deal more impressed with Max's progress if it were possible for him to demonstrate a scale (temperament) by muting off the first 12 notes so that only one string in each unison was sounding and then asking for guidance. That way he could concentrate on getting the basis correct instead of blindly ploughing through the other 200+ strings getting overwhelmed by notes that need correction.

This thread is going round and round in circles getting nowhere fast!

Agreed. There is one thing that mystifies me about Max. He was sent a complete Randy Potter course for instructional purposes.

The instructional DVD’s did not make it through the mail to Max.

Why is he not spending time translating the course pages daily or one page a day, but insists on spending great deal of time here?

I'm lurking ... and it's entertaining.

Everyone carry on now. Just pretend I'm not here.

Same here.

Who says we're all in here lurking around??? I'm not!!!

That makes three of us who aren't here. Is anyone else not here?

I figured that Groot fella might be not here, but I didn't want to say anything to give him away.

😇👼🙈🙉🙊 That's me. A perfect angel. See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil but I have FUN!

Dear Kamin, it is true. When I'm read your words. You are as close was when I do temperament. I really keep plucking the strings now, because it is associated with a biggest wear and tear a pianos which I have . With reference check unisons really sound very bright and I do not find errors. The tuner also shows that I was right. I see no reason to accusation that plucking wrong but a mute is norm. To basic tone it is irrelevant how it arises (from impact or pinching)

This theme is not about Max. Here we can try to understand and do it's a discussion about the temperament. In the future would like to see examples of the quality of temperament of our forum regulars

Max has a lot of free time

Max still hopes that one day it will happen. Johnkie, you are right that Max is not very consistent in their desires. He absolutely can not put specific targets and try to solve them. But he tries. English gentleman be indulgent to him

Max,

I am no professional, but thanks to some good books and the technicians on this forum, I have made some progress.



Nobody is making any accusations. They are giving you advice, Max. Good advice. Over and over and over.

The piano's tone is not the same when plucked or played. A good, solid, clean unison is tuned by using the piano's hammer. The technicians on this forum have been telling you this for more than a year (two years?)

ALL good tuning videos show normal playing, not plucking. Again, here's one of my favorites (I've posted it before):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbNYS6Oot4M
0:01 - 1:57 = examples of bad and good unisons
2:00 - 3:25 = tuning a temperament (he uses mainly 4ths and 5ths, and checks with 3rds and 6ths)
3:25 - 3:50 = extending the temperament to the whole middle section (still single strings!)
3:52 - 4:55 = tuning left and right string of each unison in the middle section
4:55 - 5:35 = extending octaves into bass and treble (using a mute in the treble to tune one string to the octave, then the other two).

In summary:
1) Start with the temperament, then extend it.
2) Tune one string of each unison correctly, then the others.
3) No plucking to be seen anywhere!

Max is being given lots of advice, some of it conflicting but not necessarily wrong, some of it too advanced for a beginner.

If Max were a hands on student of any of us, we would be attempting to supplant some of the bad habits with better ones. That is the hardest part of any teaching, particularly when the student has some sort of hidden attachment to doing it the hard way.

If you still believe that you have yet a very large step to go, then eventually you will begin to progress at a normal speed.

The "tuner" is not precise enough to show you if the tone is musical tone.

On pianos in bad condition,old or with bad strings, the role of the human tuner is to give the impression that the piano is better than it is. So I understand your idea of tone shaping but you are not yet experimented enough to do that well. Your ears may be tired soon an then you cannot judge of the final tone.

It is because nobody showed you really, in front of you, giving you methods, books and reading can help but minimally, you have to watch training videos at last and try to reproduce what you see..

But you have been send much links and material so the rest is up to you.

If you where able to record a temperament that would mean you where able to judge yourself of your work. For now you are yet too much in fantasy, to me.

Basics and ear training are necessary.

Best wishes

If a lot of incorrect theory of Max finally would transformed into quality the temperament of piano , then rejoice not only the Max. Will be happy all ( a invisible transatlantic web puppeteers and his customers). Thank you that understood "the idea of ​​forming the tone, but you have not experimented enough to do it well."
"If you are able to record where temperament, which means that you where able to judge yourself on your job" is a big dream of Max. But Max is not able to record video on a regular basis, there is no money to buy a camera. However, this does not mean that he is not engaged temperament. It's moving, and does it every day. Sometimes Max's customers do not hear in the sound of his inconsistencies temperament. It's little victory