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Hello,

I am beginning my search for a piano for my 5 years old daughter. She has always loved music and has been taking piano lessons for almost half a year now and seems to really enjoy it. She is presently struggling every week at lessons because of having to adjust from practicing on a small keyboard at home to playing on an acoustic piano in class.

I have absolutely no knowledge of pianos and so have asked a friend who has some knowledge to accompany me to a few piano stores. I did not like any of the entry level pianos presented to me though at the end of the day, I may just end up with one.

One step up from the entry level piano, it seems, are some that I am interested in, namely the Boston UP-118E and the Yamaha U1.

A lot of information and opinions (usually all very positive) are available regarding Steinway & Sons pianos on the internet, but do they necessarily apply to Boston pianos? Particularly those that are now being manufactured by Kawaii?

I have heard that Yamaha pianos may not be as well constructed today as they were 20 years ago, and that some of the current pricing is inflated due to their unique marketing costs. Are there any facts substantiating any of these?

Of these two pianos, which is the better built?

Of these two pianos, which is the better value for the money if their prices are comparable?

Thank you in advance for all information and tips.

Yamaha has the best quality for the price and a very good reputation, the U1 is an excellent professional upright piano and will last you a life time, the construction is better these days because of better technology. Boston is a good piano but over priced because of the Steinway name involved.
Ultimately the most important is the sound and the feel of the piano, take your daughter to the store and let her play them both, then evaluate.
Quality / price the Yamaha is the best deal.

Good luck,
Patrick

Steinway never made Boston pianos--I just wanted to point that out, given that you referred to Bostons "that are now being manufactured by Kawai." If you like Bostons, you might want to try out Kawais directly.

Im with Pat, Kawai is a great name but only if thats the name on the front of the piano. I would go with Yamaha, a great starter piano. I also agree with Rank, they are direct competition so try Kawai out as well.

Welcome Cassandra,

Unfortunately, there are no absolute answers to your questions. It's your subjective answers that count. If you can, I might also add Kawaii pianos to the mix. They are similar to the Boston, and will likely be less expensive.

All of these pianos will last a virtual lifetime and provide you with a wonderful experience. Don't worry for a second about Yamahas not being made as good as 20 years ago. It's not true.

As for the Boston piano, it is part of Steinway, but is not a Steinway (or a Kawaii for that matter). It's a unique piano designed by Steinway and manufactured by Kawaii. It shares some, but not all components. It's quality is excellent.

So the bottom line is that you have to decide which piano you like and feel most comfortable with. Do you want to be part of the Steinway family, with support from a Steinway dealer? Then the Boston is a good choice.

Is price the more important factor? Then consider a choice between Kawaii or Yamaha. If you like Yamaha's brighter sound, you might also look at the T118, which has a lot of similarities to a U1, but for about $2K less.

In the end, if price is really important, don't turn your nose up at the entry level pianos from respected dealers. They too will give you years of excellent service, and are far better than having no piano at all.

Good luck in your search, and above all else, have fun.

Amen to what theCaz said.

Cassandra,

As GC1Patrick notes, there is certainly some mileage in letting your daughter try the different makes, and you may indeed factor what she says into your decision. I would caution, however, against letter her choose. Kids often prefer the lightest action, even if a piano with a more precise and responsive action gets vetoed as a result.

The Yamaha U1, and the various Kawais and Boston Kawais are all fine pianos. We have argued at length about who designed this or that, and whether one is overpriced or not, but at the end of the day they are all fine machines. Let your ears and hands help you decide. Even if you yourself do not play, your friend can instruct you (if they are knowledgeable enough) in what to look at in terms of tone and action differences and then you can experience it for yourself. Just play notes and chords. Run your hand up the keyboard one note at a time to hear and feel how the beast responds to your touch.


Louis,

I know you are looking for a grand piano, but have you played any of these verticals? If so, what did you think?

Can one assume that this statement was made by the Boston dealer.? For the Boston dealer to make a statement like that one would think he was describing his own piano.

The list price for a black Boston UP 118E is 9,950 euros in France (11,800 euros in other finishes). Maybe one should be able to get 10 to 20 % discount. I have ho idea of the american price - but I find this european price relatively high.

The Boston was on our original list of pianos... but we were side tracked by the Zimmermann uprights (these may be called Bechstein Academy in the US). We never managed to find a Boston until after a Bechstein Academy A124 decided that it had found its new owner (I am not sure this model is available in the US). Later we found and tried a Boston - and this made us even happier with our Bechstein.

Anyway - I don't want this to be a Bechstein advert... the point is that if you are looking at Bostons ... in this price range you have a big choice of high quality pianos to chose from.... take your time and get a knowledgeable friend or teacher to help you when you have a short list!

Regarding getting a piano with a light touch for children - by chance we went the other way and my son started with an old second hand Rosler (pre Berlin wall coming down) that has a very heavy touch... excellent for starting on since it forces a big emphasis on articulation... however after some time (3 years in our case) I could see that this heavy touch was preventing development - everything he played with this heavy touch in mind. Now with the new Bechstein I can already see the improvement. So for starters a heavy touch really helps with developing articulation - but then may hinder development of musical expression- but I do not think a super light touch is the solution - you need a 'piano of expression' as they say over here.

As an aside - the old Rosler has yet to find a new home so it sits next to the Bechstein - there is such a difference in sound quality and touch that one understands why getting a good/excellent piano is worth it.

Finally I do not want to knock present day Roslers (made by Petrof). In our search for a new piano - we tried the new Rosler ... and these are excellent pianos (good tone and pleasant touch at a very good price)... but the Bechstein we liked more.

Since you are asking several things:

I agree with crispin. You also stated that a U1 seems to be a step up from entry level. Actually it is several steps up. It is truly a piano which is a "professional upright" and is good enough for college training and practice. As the discussion above talks about heaviness of touch. The Yamaha has a lighter touch and is preferred by children and people with smaller hands. The truth is that you do not want your daughter developing pain and problems from a heavy touch.

If you do not like shopping for a piano, then just buy the U1. If you like shopping then expand your list to other very nice uprights which are made in the far east and central Europe. (Kawai, Young Chang, Samich, Hailun, Petrof, Bechstein Academic, Bohemia, Kanabe, Vogel, etc.) plus the very nice US made brand of Charles Walters. For well under $10,000 you can get a wonderful Charles Walter that most people consider better than the pianos that you are looking at. www.walterpiano.com

If you are concerned about maybe having to sell the piano in the future, then the Yamaha will be the easiest to resell. And it should still look and play great in 35 years like our 35 year old U1 which has been played a lot.

Both Boston and Yamaha are fine pianos in general with excellent build quality. As for which is the better value, that's more difficult but the U1 might have a bit of edge on resale value if only because they are so well known and have such high market acceptance. I have owned one since 1976 and it still sounds like a Yamaha U1 and holds it's tune perfectly.

Also, I have seen absolutely no evidence that the quality of the Japanese built Yamahas (U1 and C Series grands) has slipped in recent years. None. The new ones are top notch. I am not suggesting at all that their Asian built pianos have quality issues but I have never looked at them so I simply have no opinion.

They always *have*.

Regarding your other question you are obviously *brand* driven in your search - Yamaha,Kawai and Boston are some of the best known pianos in the industry and it's anybody's guess *what* if any major difference may there be between them...

Basically it's become a simple matter of budget, and sometimes - hehe- sometimes I say... "personal preference"...

[Hard to do for parents perhaps not playing themselves... ]

Your search would perhaps be a bit different if you were perhaps more "sound" or "tone"- driven -something easier to do for players themselves - as there would be several other "as good" or even 'better' - definitely "more interesting" options on the market today.

Bear in mind that "built quality" is rapidly approaching very similiar levels in the industry today involving more noticeable differences pertaining rather to specific *models* by same maker today than amongst comparable 'brands' as a whole.

[Of course some want you to believe that Olympic Stadiums built in one country will always be much better than in another... ]

For this reason people in today's market can and often do choose also among some other brands, brands which have put a lot of focus on 'tone quality' - new boys on the block need to sometimes go the extra mile to establish themselves after all...

But now I must stop as I'm getting into rather hot territory and my accusers are getting ready to load their rusty howitzers...

Good luck in your shopping!

Norbert

No Piano dad, but I have had a dealer or two tell me that bostons are only OK, even though he was selling Bostons himself. Then again, he was trying to sell me a redone $42000 1927 Steinway B. And I have tried to find a good comparison online but can anyone tell me the differences between Bechstein Academy and C. bechstein. The website does'nt say much. I heard that they just cut back on the finish and exterior features but retain the same performance and quality of the C, can anyone help me on that?

Louis,

This forum talked about it, e.g.:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/21277.html#000000

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/22024.html#000000

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/22058/2.html#000035

schwammerl.

Also, is there any where to get good information on Bosendorfer and its conservatory model differences? Thanks for the hepl though Schwammerl, very informative.

Louis. You are claiming to be 14 (though I am wondering f you are younger) and hence the dealer wasn't trying to sell YOU anything.

Any Bosie dealer would be happy to explain the differences to you, although he will quickly conclude that he is wasting his time.

Which makes your theoretical Bosie salesmen smarter than many on this forum.

I would reccomend Yamaha over Boston. I own a Boston. Yes, Bostons are overpriced because of the Steinway connection. No, the "Steinway Promise" that they hype in the sales pitch doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

I read a book called blink about the way people's minds work, by Malcom Gladwell, and he makes an analogy about that kind of thing AJB. If a teen comes into a car dealership that you should'nt push them a side because they could come back with their parents and a check, as long as I did'nt look to " impoverished" and I was knowledgeable about buying a piano they would'nt make snap judgements and they would answer my questions happily.

Louis - I think you have, perhaps unsurprisingly, missed my point. It is not your age that is the main issue here, it is the absence of maturity evident in your questions. Your style of posting at times indicates that you seek confrontation rather than polite and intelligent discourse. You do not, I am afraid, come across as anything remotely resembling "knowledgeable".

However, at this point I shall stop feeding the troll.

Kind regards

Adrian